TTS Rewind: 73. Yani Smith - An Expert's Guide to Intake Optimization

[00:00] So, I think it's extremely important for law foremowners and lawyers to also hold themselves accountable.
[00:06] After listening to this episode, if you go look for things in your system and you find them, ask yourself
[00:12] how I provided the training necessary.
[00:14] Ensure that the team knows how to use the system. I would say 90% of the law firms that come to us,
[00:19] do not know how to use the system. It's wild.
[00:23] Welcome to the tip-to-skills podcast where we discuss running and growing your law firm.
[00:28] I'm your host, Maria Monroe, President and co-founder of Larring.
[00:32] Today I am joined by Yani Smith and we talk about one of my biggest annoyances in take.
[00:40] From setting up a phone tree to gathering data to utilizing Lee Docket to empathy, friendlyness.
[00:47] I literally ask her, I think, every single question I could possibly think of.
[00:52] This is one of our longer episodes, but it's full with so much so much knowledge.
[00:57] I'm so grateful that she took the time to do this. I hope that you guys find this episode valuable
[01:03] It's me right
[01:05] Yeah
[01:07] Yeah, seriously to me you're Yani like I don't think of your last name. Okay, you know my name is Yanesha
[01:14] No, I didn't know that okay, we could see her for the podcast. You want all right, Yani Smith
[01:19] Hi Maria, I tell us what your business is called. I'm Yani Smith
[01:25] I'm left legal intake pros and we help law firms
[01:31] Remove the friction and maximize intake to grow so we fix the core intake issues. It's my biggest annoyances in today. I know I fucking hate it. I know
[01:42] I just wish everybody could just get it down
[01:44] Perfect. Oh, it's hard. It's such a tough spot for an agency too because it always feels like you're placing blame on the clients
[01:52] So the client's like, no, the issues you and I'm like, no, no, no, you should look at your call volume.
[01:57] The issues not mean. Yeah. But it's like always like a fine line of like not trying to shift the blame.
[02:03] But also like bring attention to, well, let's talk about your intake, right? Yeah. Now as much as it annoys me, I am
[02:10] by no means an expert. I know that you are an expert. So I wanted to pick your brain on like
[02:16] What are the most important things to get down in terms of intake?
[02:22] Like if a firm said, hey, y'all, maybe don't have the funds to hire you.
[02:27] Or you know, we're just like so far behind that.
[02:31] I just want to understand like the top seven things that a firm can do.
[02:36] Yeah. The first thing I want to say is, I used to be that client that was like calling the SEO company.
[02:43] like we need more leads, we need better leads.
[02:46] So I'm sorry because I know that you guys do it a lot,
[02:50] but you don't know what you don't know in a lot of ways.
[02:54] And I think that what is harder to say than do is to like fix these issues
[03:01] when you're inside of the firm.
[03:04] So that said it takes time and there's like no easy lift,
[03:08] but a couple of things that you can do.
[03:10] I know that most of your clients are probably on some sort of a call tracking system.
[03:15] I'll relatively quickly.
[03:17] So what we find is that a lot of clients have a call tracking system, and maybe they have
[03:22] an intake software like Lee Docket.
[03:24] I love Lee Docket.
[03:25] Me too.
[03:26] Yes, I know Lee Docket is great, but most people don't leverage all of the features, all of the
[03:32] capabilities of Lee Docket, such as integrating their call tracking system with Lee Docket.
[03:40] all of your contact sources so that if you enter the phone number in of a potential client
[03:45] or you have a web form that comes in you integrate that with the system and it will auto
[03:50] populate and attribute to the contact number. I have a question though so we're trying to
[03:54] this issue with attribution where those sign a case they have a phone number but the phone number
[04:00] doesn't match the call rail number. The call already. Yeah so it's like maybe they called
[04:05] from an office or their sister cell phone or something like that where the actual phone
[04:14] number that is tracked and called isn't the best primary contact number so when we're
[04:23] trying to find where a case originated what is there like a secondary I know the
[04:29] answer but I want to tell you this people so you can put us yes so I love this
[04:34] question because we do this often for our clients that might want to get like super granular
[04:40] about specific landing pages or like location pages on their site and without building out
[04:45] several types of forms on their site. So you can just use the UTM codes and enter that into
[04:52] lead socket. You can use a UTM codes or add specific domain URLs if you're using the system like lead
[04:59] I don't know what I mean is I don't mean the number that like the call tracking number that they dialed.
[05:04] I mean the number that they called from.
[05:06] So the number that call real is tracking, you know, say it's 800-555-555-555.
[05:14] It's not the phone number that is the primary context phone number.
[05:19] So at some point during intake, the callback number is a different phone number.
[05:25] So it's hard to trace that this phone number from CalRail
[05:31] is actually attached to this different phone number
[05:33] that we've attached in our CRM tool,
[05:37] or sorry, in our case management software, to the client.
[05:40] So the client's phone number is not 800 555.
[05:43] It's, you know, 3, 2, 3, 8, whatever.
[05:46] Do you see what I'm saying?
[05:47] Kind of, but are they, are they,
[05:49] are they entering a different number
[05:51] from the device that they're on?
[05:52] Yes.
[05:53] still use the UTM codes. But I'm not saying they're entering it into the context of mission
[05:58] for me to intake specialist. So, in lead docket. This is why I live lead to...
[06:03] Okay, so there is like an extra thing. Okay, so in lead docket you can get super granular.
[06:09] So the way that we set up lead docket, illegal intake pros is we pull everything from the referral
[06:16] URL. So you have the current URL, the referral URL. If we have UTM codes that we can feed
[06:21] into the system as well. We will do that. A call tracking system as well. So when an opportunity
[06:29] comes in, it will actually show a trail of this is a number they called from this is a digital
[06:33] footprint in terms of maybe the page that they're on any UTM codes that match up. So there is a
[06:40] way to foolproof it anyway where you'll have multiple data points in the building. They're actual
[06:45] phone number including their actual phone number. But exactly exactly exactly. So there's a way to do
[06:51] that but you have to we rely on our clients to get that information from them, especially like
[06:56] social media. So if they have a social media campaign and those callers or those prospects
[07:03] maybe didn't click the actual call to action on the on their social media to call, we'll just
[07:08] get the UTM codes from them so that it will automatically attribute to the social media campaign or
[07:15] whatever other campaign that they have. So there's ways of doing what we call full proof
[07:20] tracking without necessarily needing the actual call, right, in order to attribute to that
[07:27] context source. And are you also tracking like, so, Colorado will give me like source
[07:32] one, like the channel, drill down, do you know what I'm talking about? Kind of. And it'll tell
[07:35] you like, it came from this website, but then they went to this. Yes, like it actually gives
[07:40] you like a whole kind of history. Yes. What happened? Are you looking at all of that? We are
[07:45] looking at that. And you can pull that information in. So if anyone is listening, it has
[07:50] as lead to a good way to do that.
[07:55] If you go to the management and you click on
[07:59] auto source rules, you'll be able to find that.
[08:03] You're welcome.
[08:05] Yes.
[08:06] Thank you.
[08:07] Okay.
[08:08] So that covers one thing.
[08:10] Yes.
[08:11] Okay.
[08:12] What else do you recommend that law firms do?
[08:14] Kind of like the basics, right?
[08:16] I think that something that would be an easy lift that would make a really big difference is for
[08:23] firms to take the time to develop a call path.
[08:28] So, not a script for pretty anti-scripts, we'll provide scripts, but the goal is to get off the script as soon as possible.
[08:34] What we mean by call path is like key points, right? Of the things that the intake team will hit on if they're on the call with a prospect.
[08:43] That way it's consistent every time.
[08:46] We hear, listen to calls all the time where you'll have a rock star
[08:49] and take specialists.
[08:51] We'll score the high score on a call and then the next one
[08:55] forget to explain the contingency fee.
[08:57] It happens.
[08:58] Of course, you will get distracted.
[08:59] Things come up in their lives and their performance will fluctuate their human.
[09:03] That's the biggest thing.
[09:05] The biggest thing is like a firm will be like,
[09:07] but my, I have this intake specialist.
[09:09] She's amazing and I'm like, yeah, but they're still human.
[09:13] And if they also know that there's no one watching monitoring, right, quality control,
[09:21] if they're having a bad day because they got an affair with their husband or boyfriend
[09:26] or you know, something happened, right?
[09:30] They're human and they could have off-days, off-weeks, off-months,
[09:35] and when do you want to catch it? Do you want to catch it? On day one, day seven, or day 200.
[09:42] What we find is that if you have a quality control system in place, so what is quality control mean is an actual protocol that it's unscheduled
[09:51] that's never missed, we're releasing to calls, score them, provide feedback in real time, we're looking at the cases that we didn't sign up, why?
[10:00] exactly why we didn't sign them up. Right. We're looking for these opportunities and we're finding them within 48 hours, right versus day 200. Yep, but your biggest rock stars are going to make mistakes mistakes are okay.
[10:12] Sometimes they may not even realize that they are
[10:16] Regressing or you know, maybe missing some best practices because if you are a high volume firm
[10:23] You're getting someone's specialist maybe processing 30 calls
[10:27] 35 40 calls a day
[10:29] So for getting to go through the contingency fee if you're just kind of going off of your experience and
[10:35] You know, just knowing the process is actually pretty understandable, but if you have a call path that's
[10:41] It's, you know, this is a system.
[10:43] This is a checklist.
[10:44] It's right in front of you.
[10:46] It becomes just second hand,
[10:50] what is it called?
[10:51] Like second hand nature, right?
[10:52] They just know that this is that process versus one particular
[10:56] and take team member might have some pre-let experience.
[10:58] So she kind of just knows to ask these questions.
[11:01] It's best to have everyone follow that same process
[11:04] every single time to ensure that we're providing
[11:07] every single potential client with the same type
[11:11] of service, providing them with the same type of guidance, one thing that we also see in
[11:16] here a lot is something that should be included in this call path where they were in take
[11:22] specialists, we'll sometimes forget to just explain the process. They'll just forget the part.
[11:28] I know. It's it's very common Maria. So very common. I have a question and I guess we should kind
[11:35] of recap our rise. Number one is like having a source to attribute things to. Yeah, we have lead
[11:39] docket number two's having a process for a call path.
[11:44] But so I have a question if we can take five.
[11:49] There's one thing that I've never been able to understand.
[11:52] If a firm says to me in this happens all the time, when we want a case we sign it.
[11:58] Like this is something that firms say to me very confidently every single time.
[12:03] Right? Like when we want a case we sign it, we always sign it.
[12:07] I know every case that we don't sign, but if there's no quality control, right, and we're looking at qualified leads or wanted cases, different firms call it different things.
[12:17] Is there like a particular term you like to use? I like wanted case. I want to cases. Okay. So if somebody says hey, this month, we had 21 cases and we're just taking that face value and not looking at what would happen with the other 70 calls that came in.
[12:31] And how do we know that they just chose because they couldn't close it, they couldn't get
[12:35] the case signed up to market as a non-wanted case.
[12:39] Does this happen or am I crazy?
[12:41] It happens.
[12:42] It does happen.
[12:43] It happens.
[12:44] And it's tough.
[12:48] So one thing I will say is that the practice of first rolling an enter, the leads that we want
[12:56] into the system is just, it will cost a firm case.
[13:01] because you'll have that practice of maybe the receptionist will take a call or
[13:06] and then take a team member maybe a lawyer and it's for a case that's outside of the practice
[13:13] area so they won't enter into the system and it could have been an LSA call, right? So one we don't
[13:19] have the data from that call but then you then you have this practice throughout the firm where
[13:23] we're not entering all leads into the system and eventually how can you guarantee, like you say,
[13:29] that we're actually missing the opportunity to enter the cases that we do want.
[13:34] So we do audits and we have had experiences where we call in with a case that meets every single thing that the firm said they wanted.
[13:45] And we were told we're going to receive an agreement and we never receive it.
[13:50] But that's what happens when you do not put a lead in the funnel of a system to push it forward to remind you to prompt you, right, to move it forward.
[14:01] So that's heartbreaking. It's heartbreaking and it happens. So rule number. I don't know which one we're on five and to every lead in the system.
[14:10] No matter what regardless, one you'll be able to measure the performance of your marketing campaigns to ensure at least one of them if you're getting a lot of bad leads from a specific campaign.
[14:20] Yes, and turn into the system.
[14:22] Everything will one of them, you're going to learn a lot if you do that.
[14:25] And as it relates to wanted cases and being able to track, right,
[14:29] if they're measuring or if they're using maybe the right
[14:31] statuses, if it's smart, this wanted or unwanted,
[14:34] this is what you should do.
[14:36] If your system allows you to parse out what's called
[14:39] like a sub-status or like a suffase, do that and remove the general decline.
[14:46] What that means is that your firm, if someone declines
[14:50] something or rejects it. It has to specify that it was rejected for gap of treatment, rejected
[14:58] for minor injuries, but just the general decline that doesn't explain why it was rejected
[15:04] should be completely removed. That way, there are forced to select one of those options, right?
[15:11] If a case is rejected, what happens is often is that if a case is rejected, but it was actually lost
[15:18] because maybe they call twice and couldn't get a hold of them.
[15:22] It's moving to rejected, declined.
[15:24] When you eliminate that and then you're auditing,
[15:26] let's look at the rejected minor entries specifically
[15:29] in you're realizing that the case facts actually include
[15:33] injuries, but maybe we didn't pursue them as often,
[15:35] as we should have and we lost it,
[15:37] were able to then pinpoint.
[15:39] So I hope that makes sense.
[15:41] So I'm stating that if you have a sort of like label
[15:44] or category in your intake system,
[15:47] that is to exclude what I wanted to case is overjected for instance.
[15:53] Add subcategories at sub phases, however your system is set up,
[15:57] to include the reasons why a case would be rejected from your firm.
[16:02] But remove a catch all just to client reject it phase,
[16:07] because that's usually where all of the actual one
[16:11] to cases that were labeled as rejected will live.
[16:14] But even with categories in theory, somebody could market case rejected, but maybe so here's my fear right?
[16:22] You have a firm that is putting a lot of pressure on the intake team.
[16:26] You need to sign X amount of cases per month, right?
[16:29] And they can't close the case and they're getting a lot of heat for not closing those cases.
[16:34] We're not getting those cases signed up.
[16:36] So they market as rejected, no injuries or whatever, no, no, no,
[16:42] policy, no insurance, whatever the reason is, right?
[16:45] And my whole thing is like, if nobody's checking,
[16:49] how do you know that it's not happening?
[16:52] And maybe I'm just like inherently a distressing person, like,
[16:55] anytime, for example, we use a CRM to we use sub-swarri.
[16:59] And if somebody marks a deal lost, I get notified.
[17:02] Every time somebody marks a deal lost.
[17:04] And there's reason and I can go and watch the calls and look at the communications and say well what happened here did we drop the ball?
[17:11] Or was it just not a good fit? What whatever the reason is right or they went with another agency, which obviously happens right?
[17:17] But for me, I'm always like how do I know that this was handled correctly and for us like and I assume you can do this with lead-ocket
[17:24] But everything just feeds into HubSpot like it doesn't have to be manually entered everything is already in there and it can't disappear
[17:32] without me being notified. It can't be deleted period. They don't even have an ability to delete,
[17:38] but it can be closed
[17:41] unless I'm notified.
[17:43] So I just don't understand why law firms don't have, and I'm not saying that all law firms,
[17:49] but some law firms don't have the same type of quality control.
[17:52] Yeah, and just like, I have as a business owner, forget law or agency world as a business owner.
[18:00] Like I want to understand what's happening with these potential clients, right?
[18:06] Like what was their experience like what happened?
[18:10] And there's quality control.
[18:11] I will literally watch calls that my Rupp Stew.
[18:14] And if something didn't go as I would have helped the firm.
[18:18] And in my case, you did this call.
[18:20] I watched the for quality and training purposes.
[18:23] And this was that to you, but it's actually this or whatever.
[18:26] I have now the ability to address it, right?
[18:30] So if a case is enclosed and let's say you have an intake manager and they listen to
[18:35] the calls like almost in real time, like same day and they catch something, they could literally
[18:41] call that person back and be like, hey, I want to connect you with the lawyer.
[18:44] We have tons of experience and this, this and this connected to the lawyer, boom lawyer
[18:49] closes it.
[18:50] Yeah.
[18:51] Am I crazy?
[18:52] No.
[18:53] Absolutely not.
[18:54] So I'm not going to say all off-rooms.
[18:58] I know that there are firms that are listening to their calls.
[19:01] Yes, no, there are.
[19:02] They're listening to their calls.
[19:03] And I think that the key is to address that in real time.
[19:07] So if you're listening to calls, what are you doing with that information?
[19:10] Are you doing a heavy way to measure that?
[19:14] Is it a score card?
[19:15] If it is a score card, are you tracking the areas that need improvement?
[19:20] And how are we translating that to the team?
[19:23] are we coaching the team on some of these areas that need to, you know, that need attention.
[19:29] That specific example, though, about missed categorizing leads is I don't know if there's
[19:37] a lot of room for forgiveness, you know, in a firmware if that's happening continuously, because
[19:42] it's, it's dishonest.
[19:44] It is, but it happens.
[19:46] It does.
[19:47] And I can't say that I can use that as an example to coach because if it happens once,
[19:52] you know how to use the system if it happens twice. There's not a lot of tolerance for that.
[19:56] And that's my whole point. Like if you have a system in place to...
[20:00] monitor this. And that was new. My next question, right? Like how much tolerance would you have?
[20:04] Because like I would maybe it would depend on how great it was. Like if it was like okay,
[20:10] maybe there is like a coaching opportunity and there was they didn't have the knowledge to,
[20:16] you know, determine that this wasn't fact in injury, you know, maybe they could be a hidden TBI,
[20:20] whatever, right? Like something super complex or fine. But if it's like blatantly, I could
[20:26] and close this and I marked it as rejected, no injury, I would fire them.
[20:33] Like straight up, like that's just me. I have very little tolerance.
[20:37] Assuming they know how to use the system.
[20:38] Assuming they know everything of course.
[20:40] Like if they just, I would want to understand like what happened here, right?
[20:44] And also like, I guess it depends on like the history of the employee, like they could be like,
[20:48] I don't know what happened. Like I didn't mean to do that.
[20:50] Like I really knew that this wasn't close.
[20:52] I have something happened. It came in and I'm going to say it to for another case and if you trust the rep and
[20:58] enough, or the intake specials enough, okay fine. Maybe that one you forget. But then if it happens like you said again,
[21:04] now there's a pattern here. And it's like, then I would be very like, no, this is just not a good fit.
[21:10] But if you don't have this in place, if you just don't have it in place, you're just getting your reporting numbers back to your
[21:18] your agency or your marketing person, that you don't know or accurate. What I want to be careful
[21:23] about here is because I see it all of the time, what you're saying is that if they know better
[21:31] and they know how to do better, that I'm going to hold them accountable to that. Yes. So I think it's
[21:36] extremely important to for law for owners and lawyers to also hold themselves accountable so that
[21:42] if after listening to the episode, if you go look for things in your system and you find them,
[21:48] ask yourself, have I provided the training necessary? Ensure that the team knows how to use
[21:53] the system. I would say 90% of the law firms that come to us do not know how to use the system,
[21:59] the way that it's wild. So we use something, I don't know if law firms do this, we use to use
[22:06] train you now we switch to guru and you can literally have these digital like very
[22:12] corporate right like I work for 18T and every quarter it's like I've got to watch these
[22:15] videos and take this quiz at the end and like you hate life for that two hours but that's
[22:20] just the reality right but in this situation they can have so many things digitally and I'm
[22:27] not saying that this replaces the human coaching and interactions that absolutely doesn't but it
[22:32] gives you a really great starting point or a new person comes in you start here. Before we
[22:39] even get to the role plays and the coaching and actually let me listen to you want to
[22:46] call start here, right? Do you recommend that they have some sort of like training and
[22:51] plays already? We typically will start with the fundamentals when we have like a new and take
[22:58] team member that joins a team for one of our clients, but we assess them first. Not everyone needs the same
[23:04] level of training, sometimes an intake specialist will have like pre-lit experience, so we can skip
[23:09] the whole part about criteria and case types, maybe someone's completely green to the legal
[23:14] industry, and they need like a one-one. We start with data entry best practices, so that wow. So before
[23:22] Before we've been training and running the emails,
[23:24] it starts with the data and the expectation
[23:27] of how we keep integral data that every single lead
[23:31] must be entered into the system and that is rule number one.
[23:35] I love this.
[23:35] Can you repeat that sentence one more time?
[23:37] I don't remember the sentence.
[23:38] You said something like intense.
[23:39] Okay, well, we're gonna like replay it.
[23:42] We're gonna edit this and like replay it like 10 times
[23:44] over and over.
[23:45] Every single lead must be entered into the system
[23:47] and that is rule number one.
[23:49] Every single lead must be entered into the system
[23:52] and that is rule number one.
[23:53] That's what I said.
[23:54] And that's where we start.
[23:56] So we start with what is intake,
[23:59] aside from legal, what is intake,
[24:01] what is the purpose of intake?
[24:03] What is a CRM?
[24:05] How do we want to enter this information
[24:06] into this CRM?
[24:07] What is a marketing source?
[24:09] What is a contact source?
[24:10] So that they're fully able to understand
[24:12] the importance of the information that we're gathering
[24:15] and what it means to them and why the firm
[24:18] is collecting this information.
[24:19] So we start there.
[24:20] And we do share some, um, does very basic videos, but we do that just before our 101 assessments.
[24:27] That's how we handle it personally. Okay. All of our training is tailored to the,
[24:31] and take team member. So we do our trainings live through Zoom video and it's super tailored to how they
[24:38] have assessed their experience and how they performed on the audit because we were studying them for
[24:44] about a month before we work with them. But because you guys first do an audit and we'll talk about
[24:47] your services in a little, but just so people have context like,
[24:52] like, Yani and her team first do an audit, and then if you move forward them,
[24:56] then you're doing the actual coaching and data and all this crazy stuff.
[25:01] So in our experience, we, we have a really strong assessment of the areas that
[25:07] they need coaching because of that. But what if you're a law firm that like,
[25:11] is again hiring for whatever reason, right?
[25:15] Should they start with data entry,
[25:17] like teaching their team,
[25:19] this is how you use whatever case management software.
[25:22] And then I guess on that,
[25:24] I have so many questions we could do like 10 episodes on this,
[25:27] but what if they don't have lead to a get,
[25:29] like are there specific case management software
[25:32] that maybe you don't need something like lead to a get,
[25:35] and if so, which are those that can,
[25:37] is there any other tool you recommend besides lead to a get?
[25:40] If you're from a spending money to attract leads and cases, you want to ensure that you
[25:47] are investing in some sort of a funnel to nurture those leads, and that you have a team
[25:53] so an intake team that is empowered to manage those leads that knows exactly what questions
[25:58] to ask, right?
[26:00] And that understands how to use a CRM.
[26:03] I've mentionedly docket because I lively docket.
[26:05] So I sometimes have firms that are like, oh well, I do this through my case management software,
[26:09] there is like smart advocate or Cleo,
[26:12] and they're utilizing the actual case management software
[26:15] for intake.
[26:16] Have you seen a case software that can do what Lee Docket could do?
[26:20] No.
[26:21] My preference is always get Lee Docket.
[26:24] Think it was CalRail.
[26:25] That's my preference.
[26:26] Give me the reports.
[26:28] Okay, management system is a case management system.
[26:31] Yes, I agree.
[26:33] But I think it's like sometimes I just think
[26:35] it's like a lot for a lot for a lot for a lot.
[26:37] Of course.
[26:38] Like emotionally.
[26:39] like forget everything else, like emotionally it's like, wait, I have a case
[26:43] of Andrews software now. I got to teach my team to use this other software and
[26:48] I got to implement it and I got to, you know, what is it called, integrate it with my
[26:53] case of Andrews software and I got to get them on board and now the team's
[26:56] bitching and like I don't want to hear it and it's just like so many things that
[27:00] go into it. So like I'm not trying to be insensitive of like I've run a business. I
[27:06] I know what it's like to call out a new tool, right?
[27:09] Yeah.
[27:10] But I think it's so, so important.
[27:15] Okay, so going back to fundamentals, you start with data,
[27:19] you tailor the approach, depending on the intake
[27:23] specialist prior knowledge and then what?
[27:26] And then we hit empathy.
[27:28] Ooh, I was waiting.
[27:29] Yes.
[27:30] When is she going to bring up empathy?
[27:32] Then we bring empathy.
[27:32] I would have lost all respect if you had them on it.
[27:34] No, so we start at the fundamentals.
[27:36] And then we then we move on to empathy, but I have a question about empathy. So let's just start here. Yes
[27:42] Can you I know what you're gonna say? I can you teach so
[27:48] Okay, you teach someone to be empathetic okay, so
[27:53] This is it on popular opinion okay, you're gonna say yes. I believe so, but let me finish. Okay, okay? I believe that
[28:00] that you can teach someone empathy or at least fake it to fake it or identify opportunities to be empathetic.
[28:08] The reason is because I think that often it's not that someone might not have empathy, they just may not have the tools to show it.
[28:19] show it. It could stem from their upbringing. Maybe they didn't have a good example of how to
[28:24] articulate or express empathy. There was a meme that went around for years where it was like a friend
[28:30] who would poke another person that was crying with a stick. Are you okay? Just to kind of give an
[28:34] example of a friend who doesn't know what to say that happens. Sometimes it's like worth it at that point.
[28:41] Because so here's my thing. I use friendliness as the other one. Are you friendly and are you empathetic?
[28:47] and I think they're two separate things.
[28:49] I think you can be very empathetic without being the frontlands.
[28:52] I think that you do need to have,
[28:55] and I guess there's a third category.
[28:57] It's like obviously positive attitude,
[28:59] so like in terms of like culture and team
[29:01] and like being a good employee, right?
[29:03] And then there's friendliness.
[29:05] And I don't think you can teach someone to be friendly.
[29:08] Like different.
[29:09] I agree with you.
[29:10] And I agree that you can teach someone
[29:13] that maybe doesn't come across as the most empathetic
[29:15] to come across warm pathetic.
[29:18] But I guess my question is, is it worth it?
[29:21] Because if I'm interviewing someone
[29:23] and I've said this before on the podcast,
[29:25] like I would try to,
[29:30] like I don't know, we like,
[29:31] I have the worst headache or like I slept like shit last night.
[29:34] Just to see if they're like, oh, I'm so sorry.
[29:36] Like, do you need to reschedule?
[29:38] Like, do they show that empathy
[29:40] or are they like,
[29:42] just ready to talk about themselves?
[29:44] Right, like that's something I would do because to me it's like if I can hit on
[29:48] Positive attitude which I can tell if you have positive attitude in two seconds and literally two
[29:53] I will end an interview three minutes and if I don't think you have positive attitude
[29:56] Are you friendly?
[29:57] I think that can very quickly be sure either
[30:00] or you're not, and I, I can tell when someone is faking from me is. I think it's like very easy to see that.
[30:07] Yeah. I think the empathy part is a little bit trickier because you could again, maybe not, maybe you are
[30:14] empathetic and you feel the empathy, you don't know how to show it. But I just think that's a tougher thing to
[30:20] higher for. So what are your thoughts? So I think that obviously if we want to
[30:27] inner screening, assess for empathy, assess for their skills, right? That's important. But
[30:34] sometimes we have someone that killed their interview. They seemed extremely, you know, they said
[30:41] they were empathetic, right? But they didn't have to be empathetic towards you during that interview.
[30:46] That's why I had it. So it's sometimes your left in a position where you listen to it,
[30:52] we call and you realize this team member is great.
[30:56] We thought they were super empathetic,
[30:58] but they just didn't have the words
[31:01] to validate this person who is,
[31:03] you know, experienced a catastrophic injury.
[31:05] And that person could have been extremely empathetic
[31:08] in that moment, but just did not have the words
[31:10] to come for that person and didn't know what to say.
[31:12] It happens.
[31:13] So I think that it is worth it if that team member
[31:16] is a willing team member.
[31:18] we only train and we only work with willing team members.
[31:22] If they're willing, then I think it's worth it.
[31:25] It's hard to find someone that's going to be,
[31:28] that's going to check all the boxes.
[31:29] And if they surprise you, I do think it's worth investing in them.
[31:32] So long as you're willing, if they're apathetic on the other hand.
[31:35] I think that would be great.
[31:37] You would.
[31:38] I really think I'd be great at it and take it.
[31:39] I'd be great.
[31:40] It's like three minutes.
[31:41] But I think I'd be great because here's the last component.
[31:43] Okay.
[31:44] Right?
[31:45] No, I don't want to do anything.
[31:46] No one else needs to do anything.
[31:48] Here's the last component.
[31:50] Can they close?
[31:51] I know.
[31:52] It's still a sales job.
[31:53] And I think it's such a unique type of sales
[31:57] because it does require that empathy.
[32:00] And if we think of salespeople,
[32:02] like the first thing that comes to mind,
[32:04] typically when somebody says salesperson,
[32:05] it's like a car salesman.
[32:07] And I don't think that I would, like,
[32:10] nothing against car salesmen at all or women.
[32:14] I just don't think you automatically think,
[32:15] like empathy when you think of that person, right?
[32:18] So I think law firms get really turned off
[32:20] when it's like, this is a sales team.
[32:23] And they're like, how do I reconcile the willingness,
[32:28] the friendliness, the empathy,
[32:30] and then you gotta be able to sign up the case, right?
[32:34] So the way that we package that is, we use purpose.
[32:37] We actually try not to do that.
[32:39] The word sales.
[32:41] We'll use it with clients sometimes,
[32:43] We try to refrain from that with the actual intake team.
[32:47] The reason why you mention sales person selling cars is because we think of someone that doesn't
[32:54] have our best interest at heart.
[32:57] When you asked the question earlier about fundamentals, we also introduced a couple of core beliefs
[33:05] into the intake team.
[33:07] One of those is that they are an ambassador of the firm that they help remove friction for
[33:11] all clients to gain access to get legal representation and to remind themselves that they have
[33:18] the most important job in the firm. When prospect contacts the firm is because they need help
[33:26] and they called the firm. So if you are following up, if you are moving forward with the ask
[33:35] whatever you want to call it or to sign up the case to make the sale, you are helping them get the
[33:40] the help that they need. They needed that. Sometimes they need you to overcome their objections
[33:45] in order for them to know that I'm making the right decision. A prospect will often say,
[33:50] ah, you know, I don't want my boss to think that I'm a terrible person. And I know I got hurt at
[33:55] work, but they're also looking through waiting for you to also tell them, no, that's all right.
[34:00] This is how the process works. Yeah. Some people need that extra validation. So we teach the
[34:06] and take teams to identify those moments to reaffirm prospects about why they contacted the firm
[34:13] to begin with, but we don't focus so much on the clothes as much as you do what it takes to help
[34:21] facilitate the firm's next success story and to ensure that you're getting that person help.
[34:26] And you relate to them. I always actually give the example of like my own mother. So my mom was a
[34:32] single mother, she was a widow immigrant, and she was hurt on the job when I was really young,
[34:37] and she never went to get help from an attorney whatsoever, because she felt like all
[34:43] bounce back, everything will be fine. That's a very immigrant mentality that is, and they don't
[34:49] want to miss work, so all these components come into play. She never did, she ended up going on to
[34:56] have numerous surgery, she had a spinal fusion. I'm sorry. Just a couple years ago, and that is
[35:01] the perfect example of someone who might be on the call with an intake specialist and say,
[35:07] you know what, I'm just probably going to feel better, you know what, I forget about all this.
[35:13] That is the responsibility of the intake specialist to remind them of your statual limitations,
[35:19] to remind them that their injuries can get worse. So when you think about it from the lens of
[35:24] purpose in having that prospects best interest at heart. It doesn't feel dirty whatsoever.
[35:31] It feels like a responsibility.
[35:33] I love that because I think again it's hard bridging that gap but from like an agency standpoint,
[35:38] I'm like how do I get across the clients that this is still, I know it's like sounds dirty to
[35:43] call it sales, whatever, but it is like a still at the end of the day and I guess it leads me to my next
[35:49] question like what would you consider a good sign-up rate? So if there are a hundred
[35:54] wanted cases that come in in a month, which I know that's like for a lot of people
[35:59] that would be amazing right? But how many should they be signing? So I will say I'm going
[36:05] to give a lawyer answer it depends, but let's say they're all wanted cases. Are they men
[36:09] males? Well no, because men males they're probably like one case and they're
[36:15] But let's just assume that it's a personal injury firm with no threshold
[36:19] So they'll take a soft tissue minimum policy case and that's why I used the word wanted because for Medmau
[36:24] They could get a hundred calls, but they really only want one right one wanted right so I mean wanted like a hits every
[36:32] They check every box. They're like I want to sign this case
[36:36] Uh, yeah, it meets the firm's criteria. It could be it the firm could have a seven figure threshold
[36:41] It could have again soft tissue. They'll take any of you
[36:44] Right assuming they want the case. 100 cases come in. It any period of time for get the month
[36:49] What would you say is considered a good sign up right if we want all 100 cases? Yes
[36:57] That's what they want for their wanted cases if we want them. They're truly want to case. Yes, truly
[37:02] We should sign every single one up, but that's unrealistic in my opinion
[37:05] So if they meet our criteria every single one of them
[37:09] right. They actually are a wanted case, which that's why I asked earlier, or any of them
[37:14] medmails because the medmail can be considered a wanted case. It can sit in the wanted
[37:18] status for two months while they're getting medical records and it will. But see that wouldn't
[37:23] count because then it becomes rejected right. I mean truly, what is the percentage? Because the
[37:30] numbers that I typically hear fall in the 90 to 95 percent. Do you agree with that? Like if you're
[37:37] looking at a firm that let's say they have the data component done, right? And you're going
[37:41] in your saying, okay, there was a hundred cases in the last X amount of months that you wanted,
[37:47] but you only signed 60. Are you concerned or are you like, that's a great sign-up rate?
[37:51] No, we're we're looking at the rest. We're looking to find out why didn't we sign up those other
[37:56] cases to look for the core issues. And you're going to have scenarios where you could have a
[38:02] percentage of those that hired another attorney, right? Okay. You know, it's interesting. Most of the leads that where they hired another attorney are from WebJet and Webform.
[38:12] Because of the response time. So we're able to really hone in on that to see. And that's my next question with like,
[38:20] like, cadences and follow-ups, but I'll get to that.
[38:23] But I'm not gonna let you move forward till you give me a good number.
[38:27] What do you feel good about?
[38:29] Like, you've worked with a firm for a year.
[38:31] What should there want to close right?
[38:33] Yeah, for you to feel like this is doing great.
[38:36] Obviously, you could change in like, really a second.
[38:39] Right.
[38:39] I'm not gonna discount that.
[38:41] Yes.
[38:41] And this needs, I think if anybody's gonna take anything away from this,
[38:46] maybe everything Yani says you don't agree with,
[38:48] which, I mean, that's problematic, but it, this is ongoing. Like, it's not a set and
[38:56] forget it. You can't just train your team, set it and forget it. There has to be quality control
[39:01] in place. Absolutely. But at what point do you say this is good? I'm not so worried about it.
[39:07] If you're wanting to convert, you're right, is actually 90%. I love actual. I love what you said that,
[39:12] because you know, that's my, that's the thing we talked about, right? That's really, isn't really
[39:16] right, you know, if it's actually 90% that's great, I'm going to tell you every firm is different.
[39:23] Again, I'm really going back to maybe this firm handles a type of person injury case that
[39:28] has like a longer, like lead management cycle, like a nursing home or med mal.
[39:35] Those cases, unfortunately, will hurt the conversion rate. So like a 75% for them,
[39:40] could be pretty good but just a standard P.I. for a standard P.I. for a
[39:45] they're volume they're volume firm we want to be at at least I would say 80% and up.
[39:51] Okay, where are the rest going? They hired another attorney. I'll most of them do to respond
[39:57] time and the second is due to poor follow-up.
[40:00] Okay, so let's talk about this.
[40:02] Yes.
[40:03] Because this is like another of my sticking points.
[40:07] Talk to me about, let's start with response time.
[40:10] Somebody submits a chat or a web form or call a firm
[40:15] and for some reason the call is missed.
[40:20] How much time do they have to have a reasonable chance
[40:24] at still signing the case?
[40:26] If they missed the call.
[40:27] miss the call or it just came into the web firm like how quickly do they need to act.
[40:34] I'm being dead serious because yeah you know and I know I think that's hopeful that you could
[40:39] still get the case because and you let it go to voicemail but I would say immediately so unfortunately
[40:44] so what if you miss a content okay yeah I know if you miss a call don't even get me started on that
[40:50] you work with some of my clients where we're having this exact issue and it's like one thing that
[40:55] that we started doing. I don't know. Have you seen the emails? Yes. I love them. Do you?
[41:00] The weekly recap. Yes. So what we've been doing for our clients is giving them a monthly,
[41:06] not a monthly, a weekly recap of the prior week. How many missed calls they had, how many Google
[41:10] reviews they got, and we're actually calling their loft, their law firm and seeing how many
[41:15] rings it takes. Yes. So I'll start and I want to like remember to come back to how many rings it
[41:21] should take, but talking about responsiveness, somebody submits a web chat or a web form, how long
[41:26] do they have to contact them? So our role is immediately, immediately. And can you set up
[41:32] automations? Automations for like an auto reply or yeah, we set them up for all of our clients. Thank you.
[41:38] All of our clients. We immediately, the minute that you submit an online form or web chat,
[41:44] you are going into and high engagement funnel. And what do you use for that if anything,
[41:50] Lee docket. Okay. Thank you.
[41:54] It's not sponsored.
[41:55] Lee do it.
[41:56] They would swear we're like getting paid.
[41:58] No, it looked.
[41:59] Lee docket.
[42:00] If you want to pay me, let me know.
[42:01] And yeah, I said we will.
[42:04] You know, take this dinner something. Right. Right.
[42:06] Right.
[42:07] No, you know why it actually helps our clients.
[42:10] So it's not about it could be called it could be any company.
[42:13] Right.
[42:13] Care as long as it helps the client. Right.
[42:16] Okay, so automatically they're getting what emails, texts, emails, texts, whatever contact source
[42:22] or contact information method that they've provided.
[42:25] And how quickly do they have to call them though?
[42:27] So we say as soon as possible.
[42:29] So within, if that's 30 seconds, if that's within a minute as soon as possible.
[42:35] So we implement a, if you see it and you are, like, you're not on the phone, you grab it
[42:42] and you call versus grabbing that, assign it to someone.
[42:46] And then maybe they have two more calls,
[42:47] outbound calls that they need to make.
[42:49] And then they're for that person.
[42:50] Might go 30 minutes before being called,
[42:53] do not have an alphabet system to disperse leads
[42:56] because that's what will happen.
[42:57] You must have whoever is available next, whoever's off the phone
[43:01] next needs to be the person to contact,
[43:04] making outbound call to contact this web form or the web chat.
[43:08] Now, how do you ensure that multiple people aren't calling
[43:10] at the same time?
[43:12] So, with lidocate, it actually blocks it out.
[43:15] If you're in lidocate and you've opened up an opportunity,
[43:18] it's impossible for another person to open it up
[43:20] because they'll strike it out and they'll say,
[43:22] Maria is calling Seri Beth and Alabama. Perfect.
[43:26] Okay. Now, how many rings should it take?
[43:31] And I don't know if we have enough time to get into like,
[43:34] the whole phone tree scenarios.
[43:37] and like what is what provides the best user experience, right? So first let's start with how many rings
[43:44] until it's picked up. So I'm honest, I'm going to give a if you can ring if you can pick up the phone in the second ring
[43:52] pick up the phone on the second ring set up your systems set up your team make sure that you have an
[43:57] after hours call center if you're not staffed up, right? Is there one that you like?
[44:02] You know, the best of the worst, but I think it's an industry thing. It's hard, but there are a lot of great ones. There are a lot of great ones we have.
[44:11] I want to name them.
[44:13] So right now I think, in take solutions of America is doing a really good job for some of our mutual clients.
[44:24] Okay. So they seem to be doing a good job at the moment.
[44:27] and go answer has done a good job for some of my clients in the past as well.
[44:35] And I know that some are happy with Smith AI.
[44:39] Yeah, I've heard that too. I've also the one that I've recently been recommending
[44:44] is Legal Conversion Center. I actually have a client who just got legal conversions.
[44:49] LCC, yes. Yeah. But I need to talk to all of them. I want to.
[44:55] I don't have a lot of things, I haven't worked with them before.
[44:57] But I don't like, is only giving the client one option.
[45:01] Because then if it goes poorly, it's gonna reflect back on me.
[45:04] And I've always said, like, look, yes.
[45:06] It's not that necessarily, I want to put all the blame on, like, a call center.
[45:11] I just think that's a really, really fucking hard drop.
[45:14] Like, to run a call center is...
[45:16] It's just, it's, it's hard.
[45:19] And like, I just think that you really are looking for, like,
[45:22] who's the best of the worst and not because of anything necessarily that's there.
[45:27] I just think it's inherently impossible.
[45:31] No one's going to do it and take better than setting it up correctly in-house.
[45:36] Period.
[45:37] And don't let me wrong.
[45:38] If you call all our income, the time is going to go to an answering service.
[45:41] Right?
[45:42] Have the time it'll ring to someone, but have the time it won't.
[45:45] But what we do is not as time-sensitive as what you guys do,
[45:49] or what law firms do right now you.
[45:52] Okay, so two rings is what I say as well.
[45:56] The other thing is, like we just have this with a mutual client,
[46:01] where it's ringing to one person, then if that person doesn't pick up,
[46:05] it goes to the rest of the team or to another person I can't remember.
[46:08] So now it's creating all these rings, right?
[46:10] As opposed to the phone ringing at multiple desks at once,
[46:15] like what are your feelings on that,
[46:17] on that and what kind of phone trees should law firms set up?
[46:22] And before we even go into that really quickly,
[46:24] how do you feel before I forget about phone rings?
[46:27] Press one if you're an existing client,
[46:29] press two if you're a new client.
[46:30] Okay, so this is gonna be an all popular opinion too.
[46:34] I love all popular.
[46:35] I know how SEO agencies feel about phone trees,
[46:38] but so this is what my experience
[46:42] and what my perspective is about
[46:44] the call routing system in phone trees.
[46:48] So if you have a call tracking number set up,
[46:51] just route your LSA calls to the intake team pot.
[46:54] It's gonna skip, right?
[46:55] Skip the receptionist, it's skipped the having to go
[46:58] through a phone tree.
[46:59] I agree with that.
[47:00] So we always opt for that, right?
[47:02] Yes, because you're going to save rings
[47:04] and they're gonna get to the team as quickly as possible.
[47:06] And if that team does not answer within a couple of rings,
[47:10] then we can move into our overflow structure
[47:12] where that's a call center, right?
[47:14] may be a paralegal that's a backup, which we actually don't recommend either because they're busy
[47:20] and they may not follow up on that lead. So we recommend pointing them directly to the departments
[47:26] when necessary. A phoentry actually helps with that. But I think the reason that a lot of people hate phoentries
[47:33] is because it sounds so mechanical, right? So we love to help our clients set up a highly personalized
[47:41] phone tree if they opt in for one where the managing partner's voice is, you know, he's
[47:46] using his own voice, where he's welcoming them to the firm if they're calling about an existing
[47:50] case, press one or a new case, press two.
[47:53] And even when they're holding, they're listening to maybe audio of maybe a commercial that
[47:58] they've done that has like a client testimonial or their value propositions because unfortunately
[48:02] sometimes you do have to be placed on hold.
[48:04] Yeah.
[48:05] Why not make a heroes journey?
[48:06] I love water waiting.
[48:07] I absolutely love that.
[48:09] So I think that if we make the tour, you know, a little bit more personal, it becomes less
[48:14] of less of a negative experience.
[48:17] So I think phone trees are great when you make it like the most elevated experience.
[48:22] I love that now.
[48:23] How do you feel about the firms that have a receptionist that then routes the call, right?
[48:29] And what I run into is that the receptionist will pick up the phone.
[48:32] Now they're not an intake specialist.
[48:34] They're literally just the phone router, right?
[48:37] They get on the phone with someone that is just dying to tell them about their case.
[48:41] And they just start regurgitating.
[48:43] And the receptions either let them talk or interrupts them.
[48:48] And I don't think there's like even a good way period to handle this because if you let them
[48:52] talk, now they're going to have to repeat their story.
[48:55] If you interrupt them, they're going to find that you're rude.
[48:59] So obviously, clearly, you can tell how I feel about it.
[49:02] But how do you feel about it?
[49:04] So we teach our intake teams call control and we have very specific training for receptionist.
[49:12] What we do is when a what we advise is that when a receptionist is taking a call and
[49:20] asking is it's about a new case or an existing case if they say new case the first thing
[49:26] that they say and do is set an expectation.
[49:30] Thank you Maria for calling us about your new case.
[49:32] I'm going to transfer you to an intake specialist who's going to, you know, ask you the
[49:37] questions about this case and they're going to be able to help you with that.
[49:40] What I'm going to do is just take your name and number, just in case we get disconnected before
[49:44] I transfer you over.
[49:46] You get it in in terms of what the expectation is before they have the ability to share.
[49:51] You're not always going to have that opportunity because someone may steam roll, right?
[49:55] And just move on to the call.
[49:56] about just and I'm thinking out a lot but right when they
[50:00] pick up the phone, yeah, saying something like it.
[50:03] I'm talking about a new existing case.
[50:05] Well, are you calling, could you please tell me if you're
[50:07] calling about a new existing case?
[50:08] So I can best know how to transfer your call, like saying it in the
[50:13] introduction, somehow getting it in there.
[50:16] So hopefully something clicks on that person's head of like, I'm going to
[50:20] be transferred.
[50:21] Yeah, right?
[50:22] Yeah.
[50:22] So this is interesting because a phone tree does that in a lot of ways, right?
[50:29] That's that for you have, you know, a real person asking that question, but you have a little bit more control with the full entry because they know what to expect.
[50:37] So I think that the goal is to set an expectation and you can, you know, modify the script so that you can, you know, ensure that they know that I'm not the person that's going to be taking this information and the goal is to be able to set that expectation before you even collect their phone number.
[50:53] What do you think is better?
[50:55] Phone rings to all the index specialists not available. Should it go to the paralegals?
[51:03] Who are in the middle of doing something and they're distracted and so hard in my opinion?
[51:07] And I hear this and intake where they're still working on whatever it is they're working on even during the intake because it's so and I I'm not
[51:15] I can relate. I think when you're in the middle of doing something and then like, you know, my kid walks in and they want something and I'm just like
[51:23] I'm not listening to you right now.
[51:25] And I literally have to turn to my kid and be like,
[51:27] hey, I want to give you the attention that like,
[51:29] this deserves, I'm in the middle of something I can't do that for you right now.
[51:32] But I do want to give you that attention, right?
[51:34] Obviously, they can't,
[51:36] apparently you'll can't do that on the phone with.
[51:38] So is it better for it to go to a paralegal that might not be able to turn that switch off?
[51:43] And then the new switch on or for it to just go to afterwards?
[51:46] I actually have a very strong opinion about this.
[51:48] I love my last one opinion.
[51:51] I always want to be diplomatic though.
[51:53] No, not if not.
[51:55] But not if not the podcast of the diplomatic.
[51:58] People do not listen to this, that get offended easily because they would just like live offended.
[52:03] So there's something to be said about transferring a call that means that it could be more work for someone, right?
[52:12] and then given them the power to make the decision of whether this is a new work order essentially
[52:20] for putting it in those terms, right? So if a paralegal is busy and they have a responsibility,
[52:27] it's really not fair for them either to have to stop what they're doing and then process and
[52:32] intake and then it'd be expected to follow up on that intake. They're most likely going to miss best
[52:36] practices to maybe enter into the system, which we see all of the time to just try to get it off.
[52:41] They're trying to get back to what they were doing.
[52:42] They may not enter into the system,
[52:46] so it doesn't go into this follow-up funnel,
[52:48] or in the event that they feel that they are overworked
[52:52] at that moment, they may set a higher criteria
[52:57] than the firm has in order to reject the case
[52:59] because they don't want to open another file.
[53:01] Thank you. I was hoping you would hit on this.
[53:04] Yeah. Because there's reason why people that are going to work on the case,
[53:07] especially if they're not vested in it.
[53:10] Like obviously if you're a partner or the owner shouldn't have to sign up the case because
[53:15] Now it's like oh here's in another case where I'm gonna have more work
[53:19] Right and that's the reality of things right it's like
[53:24] I don't even want to get into it, but I feel I feel very strongly about it. It's true
[53:28] And that's why I have a very strong opinion about it one of our goals
[53:31] our primary goal is
[53:34] We are trying to
[53:35] decentralized lawyers from intake, lawyers feel like I'm going to be like the one that signs up
[53:42] all the cases like I'm Harvey Specter, like I need to be the one that gets on the phone and in one
[53:48] way I could see that, right? Like of course talking to a lawyers and maybe more beneficial in some ways,
[53:55] like I could see why that would be super helpful, right? But on the other end I'm like
[54:00] But what in your time be best spent doing something else like prepping for trial or managing
[54:08] the business?
[54:09] I think that there is this belief in our space, especially when law firms are in their
[54:14] first few years, that the lawyer has to be the one to do the intake and be involved in
[54:20] the intake and what is an intake specialist going to do?
[54:23] Some lawyers will be like, wait, they're going to sign up the case, they're going to determine
[54:27] if this is a case or not.
[54:30] How do you feel about that?
[54:32] And then I guess the follow-up question would be,
[54:35] what about is there a time that is appropriate
[54:39] to say, let me transfer you to our, to one of our lawyers?
[54:43] Yeah, absolutely.
[54:45] I think it all boils down to availability.
[54:47] So if you are a lawyer and you just are available
[54:51] to screen cases that you want and do not want all day long
[54:54] and you're able to also keep up with other things,
[54:56] which means that we're not letting people off the phone, right?
[54:59] to take a message and have a lawyer call them back.
[55:02] Oh yes, that's where we share the bottleneck.
[55:04] I literally hear this like, even when we're like
[55:08] monitoring LSA calls, right?
[55:10] And we're like listening and notating.
[55:12] And I will tell the team like, okay,
[55:15] well, how many of these unedipin' signups?
[55:16] And they'll be like, well, there's no way for me to know
[55:18] because it's always like, I'll have a lawyer call you back.
[55:19] And I'm like, what?
[55:21] I'm like, put me on any mouth right.
[55:22] Like, I'm just like, that should not be happening.
[55:25] Right?
[55:26] It's like if they're not available,
[55:27] just sign up the case if you need to reject the later reject it how is the intake
[55:30] to not train on what cases sign up in which cases not sign up, right? But getting through
[55:35] to the lawyers sometimes I don't know if you struggle with this. Especially I would argue with
[55:41] like the newer or more boutique firms that I personally think there's like some limiting beliefs
[55:49] around it. Like nobody else is going to be able to do this as well as me. I'm needed for this.
[55:54] And I'm like, well, I mean, how does Morgan and Morgan do it?
[55:58] Like, I think that it comes from lawyers feeling like they have to be involved in their intake process.
[56:06] I think it's coming from a place of wanting what's best for their clients.
[56:10] They truly believe that I am the only person that can, you know, qualify this case and really ask the questions that are necessary.
[56:21] my intake team isn't trained on that. I don't have time to train them on this and it just becomes
[56:26] a cycle, right? I don't have time to train them on this. I need help. I'm probably losing cases
[56:30] because I'm having to call them back and then they've hired another attorney. And until I can spend
[56:36] the time to train them, I'm just going to have to continue to take these and take myself.
[56:40] And it's just a vicious cycle. And don't freedom. And I think the other component to add a lot of lawyers,
[56:47] at least the lawyers that we work with are trial lawyers, right? So they are used to getting these very
[56:53] warm leads, right? But the moment they start doing any sort of marketing, I'm like, the marketing
[56:59] cold lead isn't going to wait for your call back. They are just not going to wait for your call back.
[57:06] So I think it's also like, and do you guys factor that when you're auditing, intake do you factor
[57:12] that not all leads are created equal, right?
[57:16] And like how is that addressed?
[57:17] I want to just go back and finish answering the other question for lawyers listening to this and wondering,
[57:23] can there ever be a future where I'm not stuck doing it and take call on a Saturday instead of spending time with my family?
[57:30] Yes, you have to invest in either a resource to train your intake team.
[57:36] they can learn how to approach a call with the empathy that's necessary, how to identify
[57:44] a viable case, a valuable case for all of your case types, and they're going to do a better
[57:49] job at following up with that lead because it'll be solely responsible for doing that.
[57:56] So it can happen.
[57:58] I just want any lawyer to listen to this to know that freedom is possible for their firm and
[58:04] with that comes growth because you have someone that is available to actually nurture those
[58:08] leads that you've invested to attract into your firm. The goal is to try to create a standard
[58:14] and a process for everything. If there is a trend where you let's say that, you know, if it's not
[58:22] clear, if your intake team doesn't have a clear criteria of one to sign up by car accident case,
[58:26] take the time to document that, right, or work with someone that can help you do that. And with a car
[58:33] more exiting case, I am under the strong belief that an intake team should be able to identify
[58:39] that case and sign them up without bringing an lawyer.
[58:42] When it comes to another type of case where maybe there are nuances like a premises liability,
[58:47] what I like to do and someone internally, right, that's not working with us can do this
[58:51] as well, is take the time to go through a premises liability case so that you interview the
[58:59] attorney and you bring the attorney, there's other leads that you signed up, these are the
[59:03] leads that you rejected, why did you reject this lead? Also, if an attorney is responding
[59:09] in response to a lead that was sent with additional questions, just add those questions
[59:14] to the intake questionnaire. That's important information that can be asked during the intake
[59:20] process and the goal is to build out your intake process so much that the attorney can just
[59:25] make a decision, should they have to be involved? If they have to be involved, that indicates that
[59:31] perhaps there is an opportunity to document the criteria for this so that the intake team can handle
[59:36] this case. So what we do is, and it sometimes it takes one, two or three sessions where we sit down
[59:41] with the attorney and we truly understand all of the information that they need, and now that you have
[59:47] this information, what do you consider a weak case? What do you consider, a really strong case, and why?
[59:54] So we just dig and dig and we probe and we probe and then we document the criteria.
[59:59] for the intake team so that they have a roadmap of,
[60:02] this is a clear sign up.
[60:04] We might reject it later,
[60:05] but this is one that they will feel really good about
[60:07] if you don't let pass, right?
[60:09] And this is what they consider a week case.
[60:11] It's okay for you to bring in a attorney,
[60:13] just in case there's maybe some nuances
[60:17] that they'll be able to discover,
[60:18] but you wanna get as close as possible.
[60:21] And then of course you have your medmounds
[60:22] if I were a law firm and you know you're gonna get X amount
[60:26] if you're lucky of seven, eight figure cases,
[60:29] It's like a catastrophic truck accident and you know the trucking company. You know that there's gonna
[60:35] It already be a minimum policy of millions like is it like hey?
[60:40] We have a really fucking hot lead like I need and the turning that can ideally also sign up cases
[60:46] I think that that's like another I don't want anyone to get mad at me
[60:49] I know all of you think you're like the best at signing up cases, but I do think there are lawyers that are better at it than others
[60:55] Yeah, I've even heard some that I think the lawyers can be kind of rude
[60:59] in condescending and I'm like, yes, struggling because they're busy, which is why you should have an intake team.
[61:06] Okay, yes, but now let's, and typically I hear this one, like, people don't actually have a case, right?
[61:12] Believe it or not, is when I hear more than I'm like, oh, that was the chance for a review, explain to them why they don't have a case.
[61:18] Be friendly, get me that review, but that's a whole conversation for another day.
[61:24] Is there a point where it's like,
[61:25] If this magic criteria hits, we involve a lawyer or do you think, no, the intake team
[61:35] should be the best at closing in.
[61:36] They should have examples of results of cases that have been gone to trial.
[61:41] Should they explain if there's a trial firm?
[61:43] Should they explain the difference between a settlement firm or a pre-lidication firm and
[61:50] from that actually goes to trial?
[61:51] Because this is something I hear a lot from lawyers, right?
[61:53] we actually go to Trump, they're so proud of it.
[61:56] And I'm like, how proud you are?
[61:58] Like, I wanna hear your intake be that proud
[62:01] and explain to the average consumer,
[62:03] like they don't understand the difference between you
[62:06] and a big advertiser that you claim doesn't go to trial.
[62:10] Because I'm not trying to put down big advertises either.
[62:13] I think that's a super hard job, right?
[62:16] And I'm all about marketing, so like, kudos to them.
[62:19] But what I hear from the trial lawyer is,
[62:22] all these people ranking or not all, but ABC and D and this big, they don't go to trial. Okay, is that passion coming through and I know where I'm like, I'm always like, no, I'm keeping it with the question.
[62:33] Okay. Yeah. Well, it's all kind of flows, right? Yeah.
[62:37] So let's just go back. Is there a point when the lawyer has to be brought back in? So we established what we call like an escalation policy. Okay. So
[62:45] All the prospects, all potential,
[62:48] and drug people should be given the same level of service,
[62:50] but there are some that we escalate,
[62:53] which means that that intake specialist
[62:55] is going to actually cover their same call path
[62:57] as they would with any other viable claim,
[63:00] which actually includes things like
[63:03] establishing the value propositions of the fact
[63:06] that perhaps we are trial attorneys, right?
[63:08] And that we have this experience,
[63:09] or maybe we have attorneys that have practice
[63:11] on the defense side and they understand, right?
[63:13] and then they have that Intel knowledge.
[63:15] All of that has already been sprinkled throughout the call,
[63:17] right?
[63:17] If the Intel intelligence is applying that,
[63:20] which I would argue is sales.
[63:22] Yes.
[63:23] So if there is a case where there is like an overnight
[63:27] hospitalization involved, right, or a TBI injury,
[63:30] not only, so the conversion or the ask is different,
[63:34] it's when can we come to you?
[63:36] When can we come to the hospital?
[63:37] Yep.
[63:38] So they're still expected to have that same level of gusto
[63:42] when it comes to making the clothes,
[63:44] but the clothes means when the appointment,
[63:46] when visiting schedule,
[63:48] this is, they're still explaining that everything works,
[63:52] but they're giving them VIP service.
[63:55] So they're still expected to follow
[63:57] that they're not going to stop what they're doing,
[64:00] look for an attorney, maybe they're busy
[64:01] and then have to call that person back.
[64:03] They're just sending it off.
[64:05] It's in motion, there's nothing to think about,
[64:08] put it on the attorney's calendar and get it scheduled.
[64:10] And the attorneys all have that expectation.
[64:13] They would be more than happy on a weekend.
[64:16] Right.
[64:17] To, oh, I'm sure.
[64:18] You know, to attend that, just put it on their schedule.
[64:20] So we have a next, an escalation policy that's about the level of urgency of when you can just sign it up versus sign it up schedule and appointments and get the ball rolling immediately.
[64:33] Got it.
[64:34] And then now my second question and you've kind of already answered it is,
[64:37] Do you have a very specific, or do you recommend that law firms have a very specific
[64:42] process as per type of case?
[64:45] And like, results and, you know, whether it's settlements or vertex or expertise and
[64:53] really tailoring it to the type of case or type of, you know, accident or injury, that
[65:00] occurred.
[65:01] Absolutely.
[65:02] your intake process for every case type should be very tailored to that case type or that
[65:10] sub-liability. It should be very tailored to that. It should include very granular questions.
[65:15] We'll have in control of the call, but just being able to know when to pivot.
[65:18] Your intake team can learn these things. It's very possible. It just takes time to map this stuff out.
[65:25] When it comes to being able to share results,
[65:27] A lot of our clients haven't taken teams with team members that had pre-lit experience within
[65:34] their firms so they have that advantage but we've also worked with in TIG teams where
[65:37] maybe they were a little newer to the industry so they need more resources like prior settlements
[65:46] but we love that. We love when our firms can share maybe a recent verdict or a settlement with their
[65:54] team and give them an archivore collection, right?
[65:57] Of stories that they can share because they may not have a point of reference where they
[66:01] can relate to it personally, but they're able to share what the experiences like for someone
[66:06] that has gone through it as a client and how they came out on the other side to the best
[66:10] of your ability, right?
[66:12] To indemnify them at least, but they're able to come to them with a point of reference that
[66:17] humanize as someone else that's been through this.
[66:19] I know you've been there.
[66:20] We actually had someone else that recently went through this.
[66:23] And this is how we were able to take care of them.
[66:27] We always ask our clients or any firms that's listening to this.
[66:31] If you do share a success story with your team, do not send a lawyer's weekly article.
[66:38] Sit down with your team and practice storytelling.
[66:44] Tell them how this case played out, how it impacted their family.
[66:49] Humanize it for them.
[66:50] If they see that passion in you, it's just going to feel that purpose that we spoke, that
[66:53] spoke about. Yes, at the beginning of this. So I don't, you know, you don't have to do it every week,
[66:59] but just take the time. Even if it's one to quarter to just share one or two stories, and
[67:04] be proud when you're sharing that. And it's really going to give them the purpose that they need to
[67:09] truly believe that they have the most important job in the firm. So you know what's super interesting
[67:14] as I'm hearing you talk. I see so many correlations in the way that trial lawyers talk about
[67:22] speaking to a jury in the way that their intake team should be speaking to these potential clients.
[67:29] Yeah. Do you see that? Of course, story telling storytelling. Isn't that crazy though?
[67:33] Because you would think that they would be the best that didn't take. Maybe we just need to make this
[67:39] like correlation for them. I swear just one last thing and then I will let you go because that you said it and I'm like,
[67:45] we need to talk about this. How do you teach an intake specialist to have and retain control
[67:55] of the call? And the reason I ask this is because I think that their ability to remain in control
[68:03] of the conversation kind of taps into authority and that authority of like how they perceive the
[68:09] firm and how they perceive them to be experts. And I think oftentimes lawyers don't understand
[68:16] or don't want to acknowledge that because this is the first point of contact potentially typically
[68:22] it is, right? They are the firm in that moment. So if they are not friendly and empathetic in our
[68:30] come across as an expert and passionate and with purpose, that means that they're firm and everything
[68:37] that the lawyers stands for isn't coming across. Yeah, absolutely. They really are the first impression.
[68:42] Yeah. And they're going to be measured based on what the firm or what the potential client
[68:48] thought about the firm versus what they actually experienced, right? When they're on that call with
[68:53] the intake specialist. So how an intake specialist can maintain control of the call is to guide the
[69:00] the caller or the prospect, right?
[69:03] Whatever format throughout the entire call,
[69:05] that's setting an agenda, having empathy.
[69:08] But, and this is something else I'll share.
[69:11] I hope everyone uses this, but you can tailor it to your firm.
[69:14] So we teach and take specialists something
[69:16] called the Amago dialogue.
[69:18] I could be mispronouncing that second,
[69:20] or messing up that second part,
[69:22] but it's the Amago dialogue.
[69:24] And it teaches the intake specialist
[69:26] to be able to validate to empathize,
[69:29] But segue into a solution, otherwise it just becomes one big therapeutic session of,
[69:34] oh my god, I can't believe that happened to you. That sounds terrible. I know.
[69:37] Let me tell you more. And it just continues. And it's in a one hour call.
[69:40] So what we teach them is to empathize. You can validate.
[69:45] And then you have, we have a list of one liners that they can use that segue them into the solution.
[69:50] So for instance, right? I could validate you and empathize with you. And I'm so glad. Hold on.
[69:56] when you say validate and empathize, do you teach them?
[70:00] to say what they said, what do you call it when you do that?
[70:05] Jamir.
[70:06] It's part of the Amago dog.
[70:07] Okay, okay, that's what I'm going in there.
[70:09] It's very Christmas.
[70:10] Yeah, I've ever read never read the difference.
[70:12] Yeah.
[70:13] You mirror back to them.
[70:15] You're right.
[70:16] Yes, you validate.
[70:17] Yes.
[70:18] You know, while teachers this, it's actually a lawyer that teaches us that's not in our space.
[70:22] It's like a shuncalloway.
[70:25] Okay.
[70:26] And I believe he's blind.
[70:27] He's a lawyer.
[70:28] And he teaches something very similar because I've never taken a score because I'm so busy
[70:32] but I wanted to because he literally talks about mirroring and validate.
[70:37] Yes. And it's so important because often when someone is repeating themselves over and over again,
[70:43] when we think about our own personal relationships, where you might have a disagreement and we're just kind of going in circles,
[70:50] because we think that the other person is enlistening to us, right?
[70:54] We don't think that they understand.
[70:56] You mirror how do you validate?
[70:57] What's the difference between...
[70:58] We're in a building.
[70:59] Why don't we explain what the difference is?
[71:01] Yes, so if I am a showing empathy, right?
[71:04] I am acknowledging that I can imagine how you feel.
[71:08] I can imagine that you feel frustrated dealing with this unexpected event in your life.
[71:14] Yeah, it sounds like this was very frustrating.
[71:16] Yes.
[71:17] So that is more of an understanding, right?
[71:20] we can put ourselves in their shoes,
[71:21] whereas validating doesn't necessarily mean
[71:23] that you agree with them, right?
[71:25] It just means that it makes sense.
[71:27] It makes sense.
[71:28] This will be a joke.
[71:30] It makes sense that you might be a little frustrated
[71:32] because you've left three voice notes
[71:34] to your paralegal and you haven't received a call back.
[71:36] It makes sense that you feel that way.
[71:38] I'm not agreeing with them.
[71:40] I'm not saying what you're saying is right,
[71:42] but it stops that call from becoming unhinged call
[71:45] of projecting and the a very upset call
[71:49] on the other line. So if I just let in them know that based on what you believe, it makes sense
[71:56] that you would feel this way. That person feels heard and it allows you to validate someone that
[72:01] possibly is wrong, right? But we don't have to disagree with them, but we're able to maintain
[72:06] control of the call and then segue the solution. So it makes sense that you feel x y and z and I'm
[72:12] glad that you called me for help. And what I want to do next is you just completely segue
[72:17] Wow into the solution. That's so powerful to get control of the call, but if anyone wants to look it up, it's like a modified Amago
[72:24] Dialog but I just have a question why what is the difference because to me validating mirroring almost sounds like you're combining it by just saying it
[72:32] It makes sense that's the validating part but then the mirroring part is saying back to them whatever it is that they're
[72:39] frustrated about so it's like a like a better mirroring in my opinion. Yeah, yeah, so when you're validating
[72:45] I thought I was something. I thought it was a dream. I thought it was a dream.
[72:52] I thought it was a dream. Can you ask her to say I said you don't want to stay
[72:55] in this just for another.
[73:09] So we had a little bit of a scare where we were told that I spoke in five minutes
[73:13] But it was really 20.
[73:14] So we were fine.
[73:15] We kind of remember where we left off, but we kind of don't.
[73:20] So this is not to be perfect.
[73:22] But I think we left off on having very specific sales.
[73:29] I know you don't like that.
[73:30] You don't call it sales.
[73:31] But very specific, what would you call it talking point?
[73:34] Yes.
[73:35] Talking point.
[73:36] Talking point.
[73:37] Yes.
[73:38] And how to kind of tie all that into, you know,
[73:42] What was it that you said mirroring and validating and advising?
[73:46] Yeah.
[73:47] So, Ty, can you just kind of maybe just tie it all in for us in terms of like controlling
[73:53] control.
[73:54] Yeah, absolutely.
[73:57] So often one, a potential caller is calling a firm.
[74:02] It is very easy for that call to just derail and often we'll see an intake specialist who
[74:10] needs, call control training, be on the phone for up to an hour. I am going to be honest, that has
[74:16] happened to me. I mean, like 10 years ago in a firm, I'd feel terrible for the caller and I'd stay
[74:22] on the phone for an hour, but that's not helpful. And we're also not as like an intake specialist.
[74:27] You're not placing yourself in a place of authority. Yes. I always think of the doctor. When you
[74:33] go to the doctor's office, do they just let you ramble and talk about what you googled and what
[74:38] and what you're gonna try and what you think you have
[74:40] or are they like hold on?
[74:42] They ask you a bunch of questions.
[74:43] They're like, this is what we're gonna do to figure it out
[74:45] and then we'll come up with a game plan.
[74:47] Exactly.
[74:47] Exactly.
[74:48] So they set the agenda.
[74:50] Yep.
[74:51] They set the agenda.
[74:52] I love that I'm gonna call it that one.
[74:53] Yes.
[74:53] This is what we're gonna do first.
[74:54] Yes.
[74:55] And then we're gonna do that.
[74:56] Yep.
[74:57] And that will lead you to this.
[74:58] Yep.
[74:59] Setting the agenda is crucial.
[75:01] And when emotions creep up into that call
[75:04] and start to derail the call,
[75:06] that is where you can use tools
[75:08] like empathizing with them.
[75:10] So I can imagine that you feel frustrated right now
[75:12] with X Y and Z.
[75:14] It makes sense that you're angry because X Y and Z,
[75:18] when someone is telling their story
[75:23] and they tend to be going through a loop,
[75:25] marrying is very helpful because you're able
[75:28] to repeat back to them what they said
[75:30] in a very clear and concise way and ask them.
[75:33] Yeah, did I get that?
[75:35] Is there anything that I'm missing?
[75:37] That way they understand that you heard them,
[75:41] that you understand what they're saying,
[75:43] then you segue into the solution.
[75:45] Often when people are repeating themselves,
[75:47] it's because they feel like you're missing something.
[75:51] So that's very helpful in that case.
[75:53] Do you train them to say stuff like it sounds like?
[75:56] I guess in a way that is part of validating them.
[75:59] Right?
[76:00] Because we're saying to them,
[76:02] it makes sense that you feel this way.
[76:04] from what I understand, you'll experience X, Y, and Z, and X, Y, and Z did I get that? Is that correct?
[76:11] Yeah. And if put them in control to be able to say yes, that's correct. You got everything.
[76:16] Thank you. They feel validated. And even if there may be, you know, maybe it's not warranted.
[76:21] Just validating them helps to end and land the plane, especially of the emotional collar is
[76:29] maybe have set over their case, getting rejected, which is very common.
[76:33] We're doing this a little bit backwards, but I first wanted everyone to hear how much knowledge you have.
[76:38] But now I think we should back it up with like, how do you know all this?
[76:41] Like what is your background?
[76:43] So can you quickly just tell us like, how did you learn about intake and like, what have you been doing for the past?
[76:49] Like what is your experience basically?
[76:51] I know you just started a legal intake process.
[76:55] Legal intake process.
[76:56] I just think of you.
[76:57] I don't even think of the business.
[76:58] But and I was like torn.
[77:00] I'm not gonna lie about having you on.
[77:02] because you're like a secret weapon that I use for my clients.
[77:07] But I just think it's like such a valuable information.
[77:13] So give us a little bit of your background.
[77:15] Yeah, so my entire career just to recap
[77:19] has been focused on marketing and advertising,
[77:23] specifically, multicultural marketing
[77:25] and advertising in the Latino community.
[77:27] And that kind of segway to somehow
[77:29] into the insurance industry.
[77:31] So I was an insurance agent for many years,
[77:33] writing,
[77:34] current insurance policies, workers,
[77:35] comp policies, commercial policies.
[77:38] Yeah, and I oversaw a sales team.
[77:40] That is where I got my sales experience.
[77:42] God, okay.
[77:43] That is where I really had an understanding
[77:45] of property and casualty and insurance.
[77:47] And in trust in enough,
[77:49] that led me into the personal injury space.
[77:53] And I was working as an intake director
[77:55] and a marketing director for a high volume firm
[77:58] that practice primarily workers compensation.
[78:01] and personal entry cases.
[78:04] And it was a fast growing firm.
[78:07] I had a lot of pressure from all of the partners
[78:10] to increase the number of signups.
[78:13] That's why I mentioned at the beginning,
[78:14] I was that person calling my SEO company, saying,
[78:18] we need more leads.
[78:20] But what I realized is that, no matter how much
[78:23] we were adding to that marketing spend,
[78:25] it wasn't translating to sign cases.
[78:27] And I realized we should probably hold up a mirror
[78:30] to ourselves and look at what's happening to those calls,
[78:34] to those leads once they come into the firm.
[78:37] It was a very attorney centric intake system.
[78:41] So I then launched lead docket at that point,
[78:45] and we transitioned over to Filevine.
[78:48] We tripled the size of the intake team in the years following,
[78:51] but I stopped focusing on our marketing reports,
[78:54] and I started to really, like zoom in on our lost and rejected leads.
[79:01] I love that.
[79:01] Yeah.
[79:02] And that's really what birthed my passion for intake optimization.
[79:06] And then I went on to just help other firms across the country,
[79:09] optimize their intake systems and try in a couple of things that,
[79:13] you know, I didn't have a chance to implement at the time.
[79:17] And it's been truly a journey of just trial and error.
[79:21] So that's kind of what led me to launch legal intake pros about nine months ago.
[79:25] Now I have another question. I can't help myself, but like one of the problems that I see within
[79:32] take is that sometimes the team doesn't expand. So it's like let me throw more marketing dollars
[79:40] which then increases the call volume, but it doesn't translate to more cases because now the intake
[79:48] is inundated with calls and I just think even emotionally like just from like a human standpoint
[79:54] after X amount of phone calls in a day like and knowing that calls are
[80:00] to after hours or whatever, right,
[80:03] also being missed.
[80:04] Like, I just think that's not the right mindset
[80:07] to be handling these intakes, right?
[80:10] Do you see that as a problem to like,
[80:11] understaffed intake teams?
[80:15] Yes.
[80:15] But I do think that the way that we measure
[80:19] when we need to expand the team
[80:21] should come after optimizing.
[80:23] So that makes perfect sense.
[80:25] Removal, find a way to automate,
[80:28] find a way to remove all the manual
[80:29] where you can, right, remove the friction internally or move the friction for the potential clients.
[80:35] And then let's reassess if this is more so an operational issue in terms of our processes or if we need to expand our team.
[80:43] If we've optimized the intake team and are intake processes and we are at the point now where our response time is suffering, that's a really good sign.
[80:51] Let's scale up. Let's hire someone else on the team.
[80:54] team, but if you're choosing to keep the team at that size, then it's going to cost cases,
[81:01] obviously.
[81:02] Going back to your experience after working at that firm, you then worked at a digital marketing
[81:07] agency offering these services right before going off on your own.
[81:11] How long did you do that for?
[81:12] Did that for about two years?
[81:14] Wow.
[81:15] About two years there.
[81:16] And it was so much fun because when you're in house, when you're inside of the law firm and
[81:22] you're able to accomplish this there.
[81:25] It's really a challenge to see can I do this for other firms?
[81:29] So when I was able to experiment and help
[81:33] the other firms across the country and saw them achieve
[81:37] this transformation, it was like, I knew it was in take.
[81:41] And it was in take.
[81:41] It wasn't just there.
[81:42] It's all not crazy.
[81:43] You're not crazy.
[81:44] Especially right from me.
[81:45] So like we had an issue recently where I clients
[81:48] had me on Obsetti, Mel, and he was like,
[81:50] I was getting 28 cases and I got 17.
[81:53] This month, like, what went wrong in, like,
[81:55] of course, I just go to data, right?
[81:57] And I go and I look at results as anything changed.
[81:59] And there's results.
[82:00] Then I went and I looked at Colleague and Colleague
[82:02] and was up.
[82:03] So I called his cell phone.
[82:05] I thought I was calling his cell phone,
[82:06] but I had just upgraded cell phones
[82:07] and it actually went to the firm.
[82:09] And it took seven rings for the firm to pick up.
[82:13] I called him back.
[82:14] I told him what happened.
[82:15] He fixed it the next month.
[82:16] They got 34 cases.
[82:18] Wow.
[82:18] So I know.
[82:19] But it's just for me, it's hard to get everyone on board
[82:23] with this belief, right?
[82:26] Like everybody just talks about,
[82:27] like I want more, I want to generate more calls
[82:29] and I'm like, well, are you maximized?
[82:32] And it's weird because it's not like I offer,
[82:34] like people think I'm like an expert,
[82:36] I'm like I'm not an expert.
[82:37] Like they're like, well, you help me, I'm like,
[82:38] you don't want me to help me, like,
[82:40] I know it more in theory than intuitively,
[82:43] just from like having a sales background, right?
[82:46] Then like in practice, right?
[82:47] Which is why it's so neat to have you.
[82:49] and kind of hear you say all these things that I'm like, okay, that makes sense.
[82:52] I hadn't thought of that.
[82:54] You know, like, this has been super helpful even for me.
[82:58] Well, I've enjoyed this and just to your point, I know, sales is sales.
[83:04] Yeah.
[83:04] I don't like to use sales, but what you know and what's familiar to you, what you know
[83:09] for sure, of course it's going to make sense in the legal industry.
[83:12] Right.
[83:13] Any industry, any business that is advertising for leads needs a funnel.
[83:17] Right.
[83:18] Right, it needs to nurture that fun. Yeah. I do. I do agree that it's a very particular
[83:23] type of sales because of the empathy component. Absolutely. So again, that's where I kind of struggle
[83:31] with like the terminology because sales in an industry like this sounds dirty. It does, right? But when
[83:40] you talk about like the purpose behind it, then that really kind of shifts and then just measuring
[83:46] numbers. Like you don't have to refer to it as a sales team. But if you're looking at
[83:51] this numbers, you have quality control in place. You're doing a lot of things that in my opinion,
[83:57] I would consider sales. Like maybe you don't give it that title. But you're doing things that
[84:03] I think are very similarly, even just a funnel, right? Using lead doc at the way I would use
[84:09] a CRM tool, right? Having quality control in place, having a script and I agree with you. I
[84:15] love scripts as long as you're not reading the script pervade. It's like you need to memorize the key concepts of
[84:22] like the key talking points of the script and then you have to save them in a way that sounds
[84:26] conversational and that makes sense to that point in time. It's not like out of context, right?
[84:33] And I think that's in my opinion the toughest part is like saying use the script but don't read the script.
[84:39] Right? I think that's tough. It's important for them to learn the
[84:44] the opportunity to do role play. We do role play. We role play. We
[84:50] will. I'm telling you. So Maria is right. It is sales.
[84:55] Pline's acquisition is I like to call it. I like that. We can I can
[84:59] apply in acquisition. But you're right. It's all the same. But because it's
[85:04] different. But it's different because there needs to be tons of empathy.
[85:09] and it's in my opinion it's higher and sales. And anytime that it's high end, it's very specialized.
[85:19] And there's a lot of knowledge that the person has to have, you know, absolutely. So I think that's like the key component.
[85:28] It's not just sales. It's high end sales. And when you put it that way, it almost changes it a little bit. Like I want to start saying it that way.
[85:35] Absolutely and it is absolutely possible for someone besides the attorney to be really good at that and to follow up
[85:46] Even better, I think even better
[85:50] Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate this
[85:52] Yeah, thank you. I really enjoyed this. How can people get a whole debut if you're not my client
[85:56] Please don't call her
[85:58] You guys can reach me at legalintakepros.com and legalintakepros on all social media as well
[86:03] Perfect, thank you, Ana appreciate it.
[86:05] Thanks Maria.
[86:06] Thank you to Yani Smith for everything she shared with us today.
[86:10] If you found this story valuable, please share it with someone you want to see succeed.
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