Tony Forde on AI Governance, Dark Data, and ROT Disposal

People

Companies

[00:00] You know, you're all managing four different firms just based on vintage.
[00:03] 48 of that is actually client driven.
[00:05] I really need that NDA.
[00:07] It's got what's touched in 10 years.
[00:08] Why is it still sitting there?
[00:09] Think about the sheets when they don't have the answer.
[00:11] They may get the answer.
[00:12] Should the firm own their AI say it box?
[00:14] I think the firm should stop switching everything up.
[00:17] Why don't we just integrate with each other?
[00:19] Alright, so today is global information governance day 2026. We have five identical questions,
[00:36] real answers on time to value, defensibility, integrations and AI governance. So again,
[00:43] Welcome to the InfoGov hot seat the show where information governance flips into governed intelligence and data becomes your I
[00:51] AI advantage. So I'm Jim Marifield them for this global information governance day special
[00:57] I am joined by my co-host for today Lee Zidwik Lee. Thanks so much for being here. Thanks Jim
[01:04] I'm looking forward to the conversation and hearing more from our partners on what teams can actually implement this year
[01:10] Yeah, absolutely and of course looking forward to having the conversation with you and the others.
[01:15] Let's welcome Tony.
[01:17] Hey Tony.
[01:18] Here.
[01:19] Here he is.
[01:20] Oh, where are you?
[01:21] We're doing well.
[01:22] We're glad you're here with us now.
[01:24] You know, we feel a little better.
[01:25] You know, at this halfway point, now the Tony Ford's in the house.
[01:29] That sounds like trouble.
[01:31] So it's great to have you Tony, Tony Ford from the future in tech.
[01:36] Come again to the hot seat.
[01:38] Before we get to some questions that we, of course, you want to ask you, you know, focused
[01:42] on the solution.
[01:43] But do you mind sharing your title, you know, what's it, focus is on, what you've been
[01:47] doing, maybe a personal background experience.
[01:51] We know you're a sneaker head so you can't use that.
[01:53] So you saved enough.
[01:54] I will start there.
[01:55] I'm a retired sneaker head because my dear friend, Mr. Mariff, here, did a speaker challenge
[02:01] in Elta, which I lost.
[02:03] And then at the nerve to show up at Armah with Armah Sox and matching Jordan's.
[02:07] I'm off the game. You can win.
[02:09] It's a young man's point.
[02:10] I'm doing this.
[02:11] There's always an extra Tony.
[02:13] You know?
[02:14] No, no, no.
[02:15] He cleaned my clock this year.
[02:16] So I'm going to just actually go with the sunset.
[02:18] I'm one of the co-founders of fit myself along with Jim picked in.
[02:23] And that my CEO,
[02:25] tools not been together about twenty three years now.
[02:29] Through this business and other businesses together.
[02:31] So we've been doing this quite a while.
[02:33] We started a long time ago.
[02:34] just we had a man in service this company and we wrote fit for our clients because we were
[02:40] dealing with a lot of mid-sized firms. So it was much more of a, you know, it was back at the
[02:44] name for paper. A lot of crowd filing and we just built it into something that's become quite a beast.
[02:49] So we separated the company a few years ago and we picked out that pretty good. So today my title is
[02:54] CRO tomorrow it might be uh, who knows what it's like. It's whatever we need to be to do is what I do.
[03:00] So we're a little bit different than some of our friends who have already had a chance to speak and then obviously our friend Chris after us, but we're kind of meet where information governance and data governance combined, because the spectrum has changed.
[03:14] It really has moved into especially in law firms, you know, you're all managing four different firms just based on vintage.
[03:21] You know, you still have the very structured, you know, old litigators who just need a pen and a pad and to box and they don't care about anything else all the way down to the lawyers and the partners under
[03:30] 40 who just grew up in a different world with AI and
[03:34] start capabilities that they don't understand why you need a structure.
[03:38] If you don't even need an aim, it just say that I've just
[03:40] blocked storage.
[03:41] It's all they work for up.
[03:42] So trying to manage and build systems for four different types of
[03:46] users in the same for our gets a little tricky.
[03:48] So that's what we focus on.
[03:50] The high level focus.
[03:52] So one sentence, Tony, what surprised surprises most
[03:55] governance teams in 2026?
[03:57] What do you think?
[03:58] I think the actual amount of data that's not at DM.
[04:03] So if we go back to the original way, we used to structure things and then an air it's said it's best that
[04:08] that DMS was a sort of truth and it is and that's where we should respond.
[04:13] And back in the day and not to make myself that old but when we used to actually declare records and then
[04:19] put it in the RMS and all those different, like, fun tools, it's actually inverted now.
[04:23] So now you have all these different points where people are working, whatever they want to work in.
[04:27] And then forgot to send it.
[04:29] It was probably, it was probably both, I guess,
[04:31] before we, but, you know, the team's staying in the share of
[04:35] point saying, and everyone's just sharing documents.
[04:37] And then, where if you leave it there, and you leave it in one drive,
[04:39] you now create a complete collaboration nightmare,
[04:44] and then trying to figure out when to save it into DM.
[04:47] And what you have to do now is you have to monitor those areas
[04:51] and try and take, we call them in points because it's easier,
[04:53] because we have to do with, you know, where it, like, 15 end points right now,
[04:56] which is going through both the global suite,
[04:57] the Microsoft suite, and the E-discovery tools as well.
[05:00] So, and then pulling that back to the,
[05:03] as the authoritative source.
[05:05] And the reason you want to do that,
[05:07] and we'll get a little bit more into it on the AI side,
[05:09] but in order to teach your AI tools,
[05:11] you have to clean up your data set,
[05:13] and in order to get a good data set, really,
[05:15] before you can get to the learning tools,
[05:17] doing their thing, you have to come up with a matching scenario,
[05:20] where you're looking at a couple of different sources.
[05:23] So time billing, the directory, DM,
[05:25] And then you start to be able to teach the tools
[05:27] how to actually get more than just climb better,
[05:29] but to actually get down into the nitty-gritty
[05:32] understanding who worked on what timing went.
[05:34] And then you can really build a model that your AI tools
[05:37] can handle.
[05:38] If not, you're just gonna have unfair and data everywhere.
[05:40] Yeah, let's look at think about tonight.
[05:43] But I agree.
[05:43] I agree.
[05:44] I'm curious to know though.
[05:46] Do you see any initial or first sign that this surprise
[05:50] is already happening?
[05:52] Yeah, I'm starting to see, so we do a lot of classification projects for firms that we're
[05:59] starting to see lots of firms with four or five hundred terabytes of one drop data, plus
[06:05] shared weight data, plus box data, and then they still have a DM Cloud scenario or DM on
[06:10] preem, and then another archive behind it, and you're sitting there saying, and that's not even
[06:15] for the bad actors because we all know we all have clients who will still use their, uh, their outlook
[06:20] as a way to hide more files. Even if it's in the delete folder, they're still doing it based on the
[06:24] vintage. So, try to combine all that and come up with something that's holistic is really, really
[06:28] a challenge. So, that's the surprise. I think with people see, you know, in cloud storage is so
[06:33] inexpensive. So, you don't think about it, oh, cloud 50 terabytes in one drive. And then you look at it
[06:38] and you actually go out there and classify it and you say 48 of that is actually client driven.
[06:44] I really need that in DM. Or it's what's touched in 10 years. Why is it still sitting there?
[06:48] So that's the surprise that catches a lot of people off guard.
[06:51] Yeah, makes sense.
[06:52] So let's talk about, you know, here's a question.
[06:55] What are the top three IG capabilities your prioritizing in 2020?
[07:00] So what, what custom or problems are driving those investments in those three capabilities?
[07:05] So do you know what?
[07:07] I would certainly just say rot and dispose of that type of data,
[07:10] managing unmanned itsable data, dark data.
[07:13] It's probably our largest priority.
[07:15] And something that's poppip recently is it was, there was big discussed earlier, that's
[07:22] having the attorneys work where they work.
[07:24] So what we've been seeing a lot of requests for and we're doing something for a top-to-tervite
[07:28] right now, they like to do the review and relativity.
[07:31] So the attorneys never leave relativity and we give them all of the things out of it.
[07:36] So they keep working and their approval process and it has nothing to do with the well.
[07:40] It just has to do, that's where the attorneys want to work.
[07:43] So if they've turned his work and share a point, we deliver them.
[07:45] whatever, whatever, they need to look at and share what they well-work.
[07:49] Work and ever-love, whatever it is, they do as part of their hat and what we're trying to do.
[07:54] And most of all, they want to work at DM, giving them the ability to stand DM.
[07:58] It's a little harder with DM because it's rules, but, you know, so the other, the e-discount rituals are really used.
[08:03] They're built for that, and they don't care about the source and what they're looking at.
[08:07] And really what we're talking is reviewing that a data for transfer, that a data for disruption.
[08:11] We're not actually talking about documented review.
[08:13] that would be something that they would do.
[08:14] But that's really become a very high priority in a lot of firms that just make the day and
[08:20] the life of the attorney a little bit easier and don't teach them any programs.
[08:23] So we just started that ground part and that's where we've really been focusing on.
[08:27] I think you know, they can start it up.
[08:29] Visiting the files are not going away.
[08:31] We are still getting requests for label designers and all kinds of fun things and like everyone
[08:36] else, we integrate with all the big box houses.
[08:39] But next, Faye is for all of us is for touch rules,
[08:42] because everything has fine with keepers now.
[08:43] Everyone has turned.
[08:44] So just having those become more prevalent
[08:47] in the way you handle your disposition workflow,
[08:51] because that really, you know,
[08:52] we're seeing some real movement around that.
[08:54] A lot of firms are going to practice group rules
[08:56] that are on the firm, not necessarily outside council,
[08:59] anymore, because some of them just don't make sense
[09:01] for the business and then just so you map them,
[09:04] you see them and then, you know,
[09:05] the HUC has the right to overrule it.
[09:07] they saw the firm needed the partnership and what they want to do.
[09:10] So we've been kind of flowing around those three areas, the most in that there's a lot of investment for us right there this year.
[09:16] That'd be a, I already, you know, that's really beautiful.
[09:19] Out of this real quick, Tony, I was a priority listed.
[09:23] Any that you would say is most driven by the AI adoption pressure.
[09:28] We talked earlier about how quickly things are moving.
[09:31] Yeah, the classification side is driven by that a lot because a lot of people assume that you could on a class.
[09:37] It's very easily.
[09:38] It really is, it's a two-part mechanism as you look at it.
[09:41] I mean, you have to match it first.
[09:43] There needs to be human interaction.
[09:45] You have to teach the tools or to your point of earlierly.
[09:48] You will end up with a bunch of just bad data.
[09:50] You will just have it all classed.
[09:52] You know, the thing about machines, when they don't have the answer, they make up the answer.
[09:55] So you have to really, really be very careful on how you leave the machine.
[10:00] So that's really the pressure.
[10:02] We've been focused a lot on AI research
[10:05] because I think that helps a lot more.
[10:07] That's a very good, easy step.
[10:09] I've been trying to map into some of the AI tools that are out there.
[10:12] A lot of our two-dimensional really fun out of things.
[10:15] But, you know, these AI tools generate a ton of data.
[10:18] So, trying to make sure that we don't create another big problem
[10:22] by talking too much, calling too many times, downloading too much.
[10:27] you know, just trying to figure out how to minimize our footprint within the small undertaking.
[10:32] So, you know, some of these complexities, though, so for a typical law form or other regulated organization,
[10:42] what would you say a successful 90 days looks like with your platform the first 90 days?
[10:49] I think the great thing about I think all four of us as platform, I can I'm speaking for my speaking for the industry.
[10:56] I think we're all very, very good at adding outcomes
[10:58] in the first 90 days.
[10:59] I think we've all really come a long way.
[11:01] We used to focus on data, not tapping,
[11:03] if you were alive, or if you had a first pass in 90 days,
[11:06] you were a woo-woo.
[11:07] But now we're actually going out there and looking at data
[11:09] and coming up with ways to report
[11:11] and show you what's your route look like.
[11:14] You know, let's really take a look at what kind of data
[11:16] you are, what you have.
[11:18] And then, truly trying to hone in on,
[11:19] like everyone said, just take a practice group
[11:22] and start working on retention,
[11:23] you know, we're workflow, engine, everything, you know, we allow you to create all kinds of different
[11:28] retention of disposition workflows by practice group and area of law. So creating those forms,
[11:33] so you can get up feeling for what's out there. You know, the attorneys, the secretaries can get
[11:37] up feeling about collections and seeing it in your dashboard so you can see, oh, none of this
[11:41] has been worked on in eight years. We could probably address some of this. Some of the problem
[11:45] needs to be archived. Some of it just needs to be destroyed. Some of it needs to go back to clients,
[11:50] but having that as an outcome because we get it so fast now
[11:53] because the way we integrate, it used to be box driven
[11:57] and you're wondering what was in a box.
[11:58] Now it's just API calls.
[12:00] So it's really, you get a ton of data very quickly.
[12:04] In the first three weeks, you're running reports.
[12:06] So once you run those audits, you now have,
[12:08] in some ways it's great because you have more information
[12:11] than you've ever had.
[12:11] Otherwise, it's a little scary because now you see what you have.
[12:14] You can figure out all about actors
[12:16] and then you have to figure out what to do with them.
[12:17] Yeah, that's segue nicely into our next question.
[12:20] You know, about like audit logs and things, you know,
[12:23] either in an audit or you got to produce some audit or logs,
[12:28] you know, for an audit, especially to continue to comply
[12:31] with those ISOs, certs and SOC2 regs.
[12:35] So what kind of reports are audit logs as your tool?
[12:39] So I, every page in our system gives you an ability
[12:45] to create a report.
[12:46] So you can email or create an Excel report
[12:48] that's for management from any page in the software.
[12:50] So you have instantaneous reports that you can actually do.
[12:54] So you can do an Excel or PDF from anywhere.
[12:56] And then because it's a workload tool,
[12:57] you have your whole approval workflow
[12:59] is becoming a part of the audit.
[13:01] And then your collection, which is the audit,
[13:03] we have all of that saved.
[13:04] So we keep all that together and you can actually,
[13:06] it shows up in your dashboard as either initiated
[13:09] or completed or to be available to be completed every day.
[13:13] So you can see and you can search by date range and go back.
[13:15] And we store forever because once you start
[13:18] moving or destroying things in other areas.
[13:20] It may disappear, but we'll drive, but we need to know
[13:22] where it was and what it was.
[13:24] So we keep that in our log and that we can push that back to DM
[13:27] and we can push whatever you want.
[13:29] We can push a full all the data around as you want to
[13:31] design it based on your firm.
[13:33] But that's really, you know, we have a three product approach on that.
[13:35] But instead of people forget to capture until it's a two late.
[13:40] The approval process, people don't vote this on that.
[13:42] And they don't realize that when you start the approval process,
[13:45] especially on transfers that you didn't go through.
[13:48] And you know, so our Google Word Flow is our both simultaneous.
[13:52] That's sequential. So you can a lot of people can be working working on the transfer
[13:57] or a network network flow at the same time. And if you're not able to keep up with what you're
[14:02] doing and just make sure that you keep that log and circulate that log to whoever's going to be
[14:07] the cheaper logs, you know, you could get caught and audit that jim did to prove this and it went out
[14:13] with just my approval and perhaps that's probably not the best case scenario.
[14:17] It should have gone the lead and then the least should have set up the gym.
[14:20] And things like that, I think people have heard yet because I think a lot of it was done by
[14:24] email, vocal test 10 years and now we have all of our systems are doing it and you're just not used to
[14:30] the checklists and all that stuff being in your governance system.
[14:34] It used to just be in something you built yourself and then you would look at an Excel report.
[14:38] Now we're all studying, they're showing your dashboard with the whole approval process.
[14:42] when it was approved, how it's approved, what was changed.
[14:45] And you know, because you could substitute, so Jim can say, I'm going to set
[14:48] the sense of the Leo, because I'm not available.
[14:50] And all of those different things need to be followed to the way set it up.
[14:54] So that's, I think that's something that we all have to be very cognizant on.
[14:59] So you're saying people could actually take vacations.
[15:01] So that's a terrible word around here.
[15:04] Don't say vacations.
[15:06] Yeah, not to the CRL. You're the revenue guy, right?
[15:09] So you don't want no way taking vacations.
[15:12] So, to any one of the questions that is on my mind,
[15:16] to good bitness on the mind, as many is, you know,
[15:19] we talked about earlier the DMS being the primary source of truth,
[15:24] but that we're needing to meet the attorneys where they are,
[15:27] which means all of these other new solutions,
[15:30] collaboration tools, AI platforms, things of that nature,
[15:34] that are integral to their practice.
[15:36] So, from a governance standpoint, what repositories
[15:40] collaboration tools, do you best cover today? You know like DMS, you know 365 teams,
[15:47] file shares, insert, however many others, and where do you feel you still have gaps?
[15:53] We are pretty much all over all those that you mentioned, the only one you didn't mentioned was
[15:57] part of you, but all those we integrate with boxes of big one for us, those file shares and share
[16:02] of all, I mean we have, you know we still have the center to these for a lot of firms, and we also
[16:07] So, cut with the Google sign as well.
[16:09] So, for our non-legal folks, that's a big one.
[16:12] So, we have those integrations as well.
[16:14] Where I would like to get better,
[16:16] I think one priority wise would be to eat discovery tools.
[16:19] What you look at how great they all are at legal holds and walls.
[16:23] And I don't know where that's,
[16:25] so the where that's said, we're good with rail,
[16:28] but I would love to be.
[16:28] And it's like a lot of these different places
[16:30] because you see some really, really,
[16:32] the custodian work is really, really fantastic in this product.
[16:35] And I think we can do a little bit better on that.
[16:37] What I love to see just as an industry is I talk to each other more.
[16:40] Like instead of competing, we all do a lot of the same thing.
[16:43] Why don't we just integrate with each other?
[16:44] Like stops switching everything out.
[16:46] You have to have 100% from me.
[16:48] And then if you don't have me, then you call air.
[16:50] And then if you don't have air, and then you call in it,
[16:52] and then just come up with some things that we could meet up with.
[16:56] And there are a lot of great tools out there.
[16:58] You both are active in the have users.
[16:59] I mean, there's a lot of things that we can all do
[17:01] that doesn't really become competitive.
[17:03] We should all be talking to each other.
[17:05] Now, that's my soap box.
[17:07] I'm going to see that happen when they go.
[17:09] Yeah, no, I would like to see that happen one day too.
[17:11] And one of the things that take me
[17:13] I'm doing a take a little side step just for about 30 seconds.
[17:16] But had been having an up in and a lot of the round table
[17:19] conversations is around the idea of, you know,
[17:23] we as practitioners coming up with a framework of what do we need?
[17:28] But what is it that we're looking for?
[17:30] Kind of an acquired requirements document of sorts.
[17:33] It's a little bit too formal.
[17:34] that, you know, in a scenario like everybody's working together and there's that transparency across
[17:41] kind of what firms need and are looking for and what you guys are able to do.
[17:45] Yeah, I'd be all worried. I think it's something that we should really talk about.
[17:50] You know, there's some mega tools out there. You know, one that we get all mean in the middle of
[17:53] this part of you and every firm has that we all need to to talk to it. We're all going to have to
[17:59] to talk to Harvey at some point,
[18:00] rupture, you have to create AI tool.
[18:02] There's a lot of tools out there
[18:04] that it shouldn't be completely specific.
[18:07] It should be worthless for specific.
[18:08] So we could figure out a meeting ground
[18:11] that we could all still sell our products,
[18:13] but also still have a way for you all as end users
[18:17] to work better than the whole industry gets pulled off.
[18:19] Yeah, seems like we gotta have a follow-up
[18:22] to this conversation.
[18:23] Yeah, that's a whole work.
[18:24] I think they did make it.
[18:26] People think I'm in say and I'm sure
[18:27] It's going to be so hate now for me all that.
[18:29] But that's fine.
[18:29] That's fine.
[18:30] I got no loss.
[18:31] That's fine.
[18:32] Yeah.
[18:33] Good.
[18:34] So let's talk about AI for a moment, Tony.
[18:37] What specific controls do you provide to enable trusted AI use things like data,
[18:44] minimization, remissioning, enabling, tension, even like training outlets and things like that?
[18:50] So all those, but what we are really trying to do is let it to very specific things.
[18:55] like I said earlier, we're on the search mode for AI,
[18:58] like all of us, we start with the lead,
[19:00] we're going to like to vector.
[19:01] So now we're really coming up with very aggressive ways
[19:03] to introduce that.
[19:04] We have in testing right now machine learning tool
[19:07] for auto class.
[19:08] You know, it's one of those things, as I said,
[19:11] it's we find that our classification model works better
[19:14] with batching.
[19:15] We don't have this many false positives
[19:17] as the machine learning tool at this point.
[19:18] So we're hoping to release that, but right now,
[19:22] because of the way we match,
[19:23] because we talked to, you know, we might have five sources
[19:26] that we're looking as different
[19:27] than the workday of sources to build that matching model.
[19:30] It really gets pretty tight.
[19:32] We're not finding a lot of false negatives,
[19:34] a work false positive.
[19:35] The machine on its own is not learning as fast.
[19:37] And you still, you know,
[19:39] you just don't want to have a 10% variance.
[19:41] So we're still working through some of those areas,
[19:43] but you know, it's great for PII.
[19:45] It's great for a lot of that stuff
[19:46] because it's so easy to program that you could find
[19:50] a self security number,
[19:51] find a credit card number, date sets of names, phone numbers.
[19:54] Those are very easy to get around.
[19:56] But when you get to the content, you really have to understand
[19:58] what you're reading, what you're reading.
[20:00] and then what's the comparative source contract law is very difficult. IP law is very difficult.
[20:04] So if you let them machine learn alone, it could really just leave off a bunch of gaps
[20:09] because it all looks so similar until the machine's really trained.
[20:13] So I'm looking forward to seeing where we go with that right now.
[20:16] Our release model is matching and I know Kathleen doesn't love that Lisa.
[20:20] She would love it to be all machine, but you know it's also so expensive to spin up these engines.
[20:25] So we can't pass the loans. We're trying to let the technology keep improving.
[20:29] and then we'll release something. But we're plugged ready. That's the thing that we can plug into your tools.
[20:33] We've had some firm tasks. It's that we would work with their companies. Yeah, that's awesome.
[20:37] No, well, to follow up on the AI conversation for sure and prompts.
[20:43] You know, let me get you thought we asked Nick the same question, right? Because there's this thought about like
[20:49] prompt libraries and things like that, right? I mean, what do you think? This is like not
[20:54] specific to fit like our industry. I mean, do you have to preserve prompts and outputs and all that stuff?
[21:00] What do you think? I think you should. I don't know if you'd have to, but I think it should be controlled by you.
[21:06] I don't think it's something that should be outside of your walls. And going, you know,
[21:10] you're not talked about this offline. It should deferment or their AI say it box. And I think the
[21:15] in the first shit because it is such a big, big spend when you have a control by a big
[21:22] company and then in the amount of engines, we were doing a project for some a couple of weeks ago,
[21:28] we had to list about sixty-time terabytes on a weekend and they would see the spikes in the
[21:34] performance of what was required to get through that in a place like Tokyo. It's a price.
[21:39] And if you're not careful and you will just start to see bills for usage that are really
[21:43] outranges. Whereas if you control it yourself, you actually know how to monitor. You can
[21:47] govern it, you can actually say you can keep your prompts, you can do a lot of different things.
[21:51] So I think it's a collaboration we have to get better at because no one wants to see a variable
[21:55] data bill, you know, a bill coming in after the fact for $15,000 for which you spent
[22:00] trying to onboard someone. These are all things that the industry is just adapting to as we go.
[22:06] Yeah, I agree. I think the closed models is where it's at. You know, you get to see your
[22:10] your Azure usage, your Open AI usage, your tool usage,
[22:15] you know, instead of, you know, having somebody else host
[22:17] do the hosting and all that stuff.
[22:19] So yeah, but what we'll have to say, I think we're definitely
[22:22] figuring out what the best practices are there.
[22:24] Some great companies out there do a real work.
[22:26] So they're going to have a playbook that we all should follow.
[22:29] 100%.
[22:31] So here's our final question for today for you, Tony,
[22:33] one sentence or two.
[22:36] What should listeners do in the next 30 days to improve
[22:40] IG outcomes.
[22:41] Sign fit.
[22:42] What else are they doing?
[22:43] No, no.
[22:44] Seriously.
[22:45] I was expecting that.
[22:46] I like it.
[22:47] You know I'm going to actually all into something like that.
[22:49] I think everyone said the same thing.
[22:52] It's not possible.
[22:53] You don't have to do the whole firm at once.
[22:55] It starts small and big.
[22:56] It's all about user adoption.
[22:58] It's all about success and proven success.
[23:00] Owners in the firm that will be your champions and they'll take it from there.
[23:04] You know, one batter is not too small and one practice group is not too big.
[23:08] So whatever it works for your culture, and you can get results, all these tools, anything you
[23:13] use will tell you what's in what drive, anything you use will tell you what's a DM,
[23:18] you can actually come up with real things.
[23:19] So it's about attention and disposition and then coming up with a plan that you can pilot
[23:24] or execute.
[23:25] I like it.
[23:26] You can't do it.
[23:27] You're coming up.
[23:28] Yeah, listen, I like that.
[23:29] I like that tagline.
[23:30] Start small and dig.
[23:32] I think that's good.
[23:33] Yeah, that's good.
[23:35] That's good.
[23:36] Did you use AI to come up with that?
[23:37] Tony A. You know, Tony.
[23:39] Tony. Thanks for joining us today.
[23:42] Great. Here. Everything you had to share.
[23:45] Yeah. Absolutely.
[23:46] Why didn't you make sure that's rough too?
[23:48] Yeah. Thanks for being on such a good sport.
[23:50] We love it. We're busy. For sure.
[23:53] Well, you are. All right.
[23:54] Good luck.
[23:55] Have a great rest of your day, all right?
[23:57] Yeah.
[23:58] Bye.